Dec 19, 2024
In the latest episode of NASPA’s Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton dive deep into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Joined by Dr. Cherry Callahan, former Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and her daughter, Dr. Kat Callahan, a Senior Lecturer in Leadership Studies, the episode unveils diverse career pathways and shifting priorities within student affairs.
Accidental Beginnings and Varied Career Paths
Dr. Cherry Callahan’s entry into student affairs was anything but traditional. Originally aiming to be a high school counselor, her career trajectory shifted after accepting a counseling position at Delaware State College. Her involvement in orientation programs led to a formal role as the Director of Orientation, marking the start of a venerable career. Interestingly, Cherry never worked in residence life, a conventional entry point for many professionals in the field.
Similarly, Dr. Kat Callahan’s path was unplanned. Without specific career goals during college, she found herself teaching high school and coaching basketball until gravitating towards higher education. Dr. Kat’s focus on leadership education showcases the versatility within student affairs, highlighting the various ways professionals can contribute to holistic student development.
From Emotional Development to Student Learning
Throughout the episode, the Callahans emphasize a significant shift in student affairs from focusing solely on social and emotional development to incorporating student learning and out-of-classroom experiences. This evolution underscores the importance of preparing students not just academically but as well-rounded individuals equipped for life beyond college.
Holistic Student Development and DEI
A consistent theme in Dr. Kat Callahan’s work is the focus on holistic development and leadership education. Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) principles, Kat’s approach ensures that student affairs professionals consider the identities and purposes of students, promoting a comprehensive developmental framework. This paradigm shift is critical in preparing students for leadership roles and fostering a sense of community.
Lessons from History: A Forward-Looking Perspective
The Callahans also reflect on the influences of civil rights and women’s movements on student affairs. Dr. Cherry Callahan recounts her experiences fostering positive student engagement amidst historical turbulence. Both guests acknowledge the increased emphasis on mental health and business-like operations in contemporary student affairs, suggesting a mixed yet hopeful outlook for the profession’s future.
Empowerment and Mentorship
Empowerment is a central theme in the Callahans' discussion. Dr. Kat Callahan leverages her mother’s extensive knowledge, bringing her into classrooms to share insights with students. This intergenerational dialogue enhances learning, bridging historical perspectives with current practices. Such mentorship underscores the familial bond within the student affairs community, vital for professional growth.
A Vision for the Future
As we look ahead, the Callahans advocate for prioritizing student well-being, understanding systemic issues, and continuously adapting educational programs. Their insights remind us of the enduring impact of student affairs on shaping resilient, socially conscious leaders.
In conclusion, this episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field” brings forth invaluable lessons and reinforces the importance of diverse pathways, holistic development, and inclusive practices in student affairs. With professionals like Dr. Cherry and Dr. Kat Callahan leading the charge, the future of student affairs looks promising, well-equipped to tackle modern challenges while nurturing the leaders of tomorrow.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of
student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers,
your essay voices from the field host. Today on our season finale
of Essay Voices From the Field, we have a very special look into
the past, present, and future of student affairs. And for the very
first time, we're featuring a mother and a daughter, both
professionals in student affairs who can share the arc of their
careers as well as the arc of the profession. So it's my sincere
pleasure to welcome doctor Cherry Callahan and doctor Kat
Callahan. Doctor Cherry m Callahan served as vice chancellor for
student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro
until December of 2017. Upon her retirement, Cherry received the
order of the longleaf pine, among the most prestigious awards
presented by the governor of North Carolina, recognizing
extraordinary service to the state.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:01:10]:
Her first professional position was at Delaware State University
where she served as a counselor and director of orientation
followed by a brief period as an elementary school counselor before
moving to UNCG where she assumed progressively responsible roles
culminating in the vice chancellor position. Cherry has been very
active and professionally served as president of NASPA in 1998 to
1999. She more recently served as the chair of the NASPA Foundation
board of directors and was the recipient of the John l Blackburn
Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award in 2024 and the Fred
Turner Award for for distinguished service to NASPA in 2006. Doctor
Callahan has served as an elected officer for the board in numerous
community and civic organizations. Her primary current community
service is with the American Red Cross in which she serves as the
North Carolina region training lead for disaster services and also
an instructor for disaster classes. Cherry has presented dozens of
programs and speeches at professional meetings, served on
accreditation teams for SACS and review teams for other colleges
and universities, and authored and co-authored several articles and
chapters in various publications. She's married to her husband,
Mike, who taught history in the Guilford County School System for
30 years, and has 2 daughters, Megan, who's an attorney in
Greensboro, and Kathleen, who's on the faculty in the department of
leadership and American studies at Christopher Newport University.
Our second guest is Doctor.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:02:24]:
Kat Callahan, who is currently a senior lecturer in Leadership
Studies at Christopher Newport University with expertise in
education, student affairs and higher education, and
internationalization of higher ed. She earned a PhD in Higher
Education from Florida State University, an MED in College Student
Affairs from the University of South Florida, and a BA in sociology
from NC State University. Doctor Callahan has developed leadership
curricula, advised students, and served in academic and
administrative roles at institutions, including William and Mary,
Florida State University, and Winthrop University. Her research and
teaching focuses on cultural relevance in leadership education and
development and the internationalization of the history of student
affairs in higher education. She is published widely, contributed
to global leadership initiatives, and held leadership roles in
NASPA, the International Leadership Association, and IACIS. Doctor
Callahan is the director of the IACIS Student Leader Global Summit
and an experienced keynote speaker and workshop facilitator. I hope
you enjoy this conversation as much as I loved having it, and we'll
see you next season. I'm very excited to have our our very first
parent child student affairs professional duo on the show today to
talk about the past, present, and future of student affairs.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:31]:
So first, let me welcome pillar of the profession, doctor Cherry
Callahan.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:03:35]:
Hi, Jill. It's really my pleasure to be here with you today and my
daughter.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:39]:
And also Dr. Kat Callahan.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:03:41]:
Hi, everyone. Thanks for having us, Jill.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:44]:
When Chris and I were incepting how we wanted to present the arc of
the past, present, and future of student affairs, it just
immediately came to mind. Do we have any families that are doing
this work or have done this work across time? All of us, I think,
like to joke that really no one grows up saying I wanna be a
student affairs professional. But, Cherry, you might be the
exception to this rule. Oh, you're you're shaking your head no.
We'll get into that for sure. But, Cherry, you're retired from the
field now. Cherry, you're deep in your career in the field. We
always like to start our show by asking our guests how they got to
our current seat.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:04:16]:
So, Cherry, yours being retirement. But can you tell us a little
bit about your career arc into and through the profession?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:04:23]:
Okay. I guess it all goes back to the day when I was leader as an
undergrad and very involved in the co curriculum. And I never
really thought about student affairs even at that point because my
ultimate goal at that time was to become a public school high
school counselor. So I actually did a master's degree in
counseling. And on the eve of my marriage to my husband, Kat's dad,
I became aware of a position at a college in Delaware, Delaware
State College, now Delaware State University, and they were
advertising for a counselor. And Mike being from Massachusetts and
me being from the Carolinas, we had kinda decided we wanted to live
somewhere between the two geographic spaces. So I looked at it and
I went in for the interview 2 weeks before our wedding and got the
job. So I landed in a college counseling center quite by accident
because it ultimately was not my goal.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:05:24]:
And before you knew it, I was observing the orientation program and
I said to the dean of students who hired me, I've got some thoughts
about orientation. Would you be willing to listen to them? He said,
sure. So 2 days later, I had the title director of orientation
slapped on my shoulders along with the counselor and that's what
really kick started my career in student affairs.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:05:46]:
That was a very busy week for you here.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:05:48]:
Busy. Yes. Yes. But pretty typical of my life as a whole. They're
all pretty busy.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:05:55]:
And, Kat, you are currently working at Christopher Newport
University. Can you tell us how you landed in your current
seat?
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:06:00]:
Yes. So, unlike mom, I did not have goals in college. I was an RA,
and I played intramural sports. That was what I knew about student
affairs, and obviously my mother was the vice chancellor of student
affairs. Yet, I never drew those parallels. But I did not know what
I wanted to do after college. So I took a year off, and I ended up
teaching high school and coaching basketball as following my
father's footsteps. And then about halfway through the year, I was
like, you know, I really liked that RA job.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:06:28]:
Maybe there's something to that. So went through student affairs,
went through my graduate program, went through my entry level job,
be one of the typical routes through residence life, and into my
PhD. And in my PhD, transitioned to leadership education,
leadership development. So that's how I landed as a senior lecturer
in leadership studies where I am today.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:06:48]:
And, you know, it's interesting that I am one of a rare breed who
never worked in residence life. I came through counseling, and as
I've interacted with my peers over the years, almost everybody's
been in residence life in one shape or another. I was never even an
RA. So I'm a little atypical from that in that perspective.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:07:09]:
You and I share that, Cherry. I did not serve as an RA in
undergrad, and I did not have a hall director position or even an
assistant directorship or directorship in residence life. I was
more raised in the student involvement, civic engagement space, and
health promotion, and then finally, student involvement, civic
engagement space, and health promotion. And then finally, student
conduct was kind of the primary thread through, how I got started
in student affairs. But I did end up supervising residence life
when I was in an AVP seat. So we are out there if you're listening,
and you're like, how do I do this without ResLife?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:07:36]:
That's right.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:07:36]:
Jerry, can you talk a little bit about what the profession was like
when you first entered the field in terms of the value set that you
were operating through, the priorities of the profession, that type
of thing?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:07:48]:
Quite different from what it is today. There's no question about
that. And I think the primary mindset was focused on how to get
students engaged in their curricular life. It's always been there,
but I think my supervisor at that time was born out of the civil
rights movement, the women's movement. And that really bore the, I
guess, the hallmark of student conduct and how students behaved.
And so student affairs was leaned on to how can we get our students
engaged in positive ways as opposed to protest and so forth. So we
were more of a, I hate to use the word judicial, but I guess
conduct focused. And my role in that and when I'm talking about my
supervisor at that time, that was my supervisor at my second higher
education job.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:08:41]:
At my first higher education job at Delaware State, it was really
more focused on helping the students adjust to this new environment
and getting them actively engaged in that new environment away from
home and helping them understand the challenges that come with
pursuing a college degree amongst a population where college
degrees were not as common. Because as many people know, Delaware
State is an HBCU, and I was somewhat of an anomaly in that
environment because I was a young white female. But it really did
focus on that adjustment period and that in loco parentis domain.
And then as I transitioned a few years later into the position at
the University of North Carolina from where I ultimately retired,
there was a little bit of that left, but a lot of it had dissipated
because of all of the social movements that were taking place in
the early seventies.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:09:41]:
And it's probably swinging back towards a more model now,
especially from a student care perspective as we're seeing the
mental health concerns of college students come more to the
forefront of our work. So, Kat, I'm wondering if you can talk a
little bit about how you see the current state of the profession,
especially in terms of what your priorities are in teaching.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:10:00]:
So it's always fun with these types of conversations just because
my specific area of knowledge within the student affairs field is
the history of student affairs. So I teach history of, and so
listening to mom talk about that evolution, and as we've learned
from all of our history textbooks, it started within loco parentis,
and it has evolved in a lot of different ways. And I think we know
from history that things kinda circle back in different capacities.
So how I teach my students today is probably very different than I
would have taught 20 years ago when I first entered into the field.
And I've seen a couple shifts already within the 15 years that I've
been teaching. And this year specifically has a new type of student
on campus that I'm in the probably the last shift I had before that
was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Definitely, our diversity, equity, and
inclusion, that piece of conversation is consistent, has been
consistent in my entire time in the field. And now it's a theme
that we talk about all the time.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:10:58]:
And here in Virginia where I am, DEI is a hot topic because we have
to look at the state and the federal government when we're talking
about these types of things. So the context matters, and context
within student affairs matters. So DEI is a big theme in teaching.
When you teach leadership education as a whole, leadership has
evolved. So I say alongside of the field of student affairs is the
field of leadership studies. You can see this in Suzette Kovev Ed's
work and Denny Roberts and how they in the beginning when mom's
talking about her 1st years in student affairs, that is kind of the
beginning of leadership studies. So these 2 stepchildren of fields
are walking side by side in a very interesting way and evolving.
Student development is evolving at the very beginning when mom
started and has a good foothold in the early 2000 when I get into
the field.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:11:51]:
I get into conversations within my master's program. So student
development has a stronghold. Leadership development has a
stronghold, and these two things just evolve in this very beautiful
way that I don't know if a lot of people see the connection between
the 2, which has led me to create my leadership in higher education
class, where I bring those two fields together, and we talk about
the history of, because we have to know context of all things.
History of student affairs, history of higher education, and
history of education leadership development through where we are
today and the complexity nature of things. Obviously, the
conversation around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and really
the critical conversations and critical theory that's coming
through that did not exist 20 years ago. So I would say all of
these pieces of the curriculum have evolved and are now
cornerstones in how we do both student affairs, higher education,
and leadership.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:12:49]:
I was just gonna mention that I know in it was in 1979, I believe,
when at the university, I recognized the First Gay Student
Association. And it was not well received by the alumni of the
university. And there were all kinds of calls for we're no longer
gonna donate to the university. We're not gonna do this. And so I
go back to that time, and I think about it. Again, that was 1979,
and this was at UNC Greensboro, which previously had been the
Woman's College of the University of North Carolina System. So it
had always been focused on educating women. And so when we got to
the late seventies, and then it was into the early eighties when we
established our first, what we call, Office of Minority Student
Affairs.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:13:41]:
So I guess when I listened to Kat talk about DEI, I was on the cusp
of those developments in the field of student affairs as we created
and recognized those populations who were not the traditional white
male and female populations. And a lot has transpired over the
years since that time. In fact, it's it's amazing to me how slow at
times it seems to have been, but how fast in the context of history
we have gotten to the point that we are cognizant of the richness
that lies in the diversity not only of ideas in higher education,
but diversity of the populations with whom we work in higher
education.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:14:27]:
That's a really important reminder to all of us who I think are
very much struggling with the current landscape of JEDIB work in
America. It often feels like one step forward, 3, 5, 10 steps
backwards. And also to remember that when the profession was just
starting to emerge, none of these things existed. So there is
tangible progress, but there's still so much work to be done for
sure.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:14:51]:
And, you know, last week, I was actually at William and Mary. I
took my leadership in higher education class to William and Mary
because we go look at the Wren building, the the the oldest
building that exists within the United States higher education
system, in which we talk about the Lemon Project. And and that's
the recognition of enslaved individuals who contributed to the
university and and built the university. And the point came across
that William and Mary has owned slaves longer than they have not
owned slaves today. And just that point of context also is an
important reminder of the long term effects of this country and how
we built higher education as a whole.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:15:30]:
And an important reminder that the history of enslaved people in
the United States is not just in the fabric of society, but it's
also baked into our higher education system. And and then when we
look at oppression of students of color in particular in higher ed,
it it's easy to trace a line through the origins. So that is a
disturbing fact as well. And William and Mary is founded, what, 15
30 4 ish? Late 1600. Late 1600. Oh, I'm sorry, doctor Tom Sherman,
for forgetting my date from my higher ed history class. But in all
of that, kind of keeping that in our history lessons, I think, is a
really critical element of looking forward. And I wonder too how
our curriculum may or may not change based on legislation that may
or may not be coming over the next couple of years.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:16:13]:
That raises an interesting question because, the curriculum has had
to change over the course of time. And obviously, when it relates
to the history and to inclusion initiatives, but also in terms of
business. And I hate to put that in there, but how do we move
forward in long range planning in terms of developing a budget, in
terms of managing personnel and so forth? That was never even a
teardrop in the sea of whatever when we were developing our higher
education programs. And now it is because we're not a business. We
are focused on student services, but yet there are those elements
that have kind of crept in to the work that we do in student
affairs. And it's particularly important as you advance in the
field and you move into management positions that you carry that
skill set forward as well. That didn't exist when I came through. I
was trained to be a counselor period.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:17:14]:
And then all of a sudden, it kinda lands in your lap and you say,
oh, I don't know how to do this. So, yes, we need to constantly
continue to assess what we're teaching in our programs and make
sure that it's relevant.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:17:28]:
I'm wondering if the 2 of you can talk about how you've utilized
each other's expertise, experiences, and generational viewpoints to
approach the work and to learn from each other.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:17:38]:
I'm gonna let Kat yeah. No. I'm gonna let you speak to that first
Kat.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:17:41]:
Because I've come to you a lot. Yeah. I mean, at the very beginning
of my career, I looked to mom a lot just because she had this vast
knowledge of the system of both higher education and student
affairs. And I've brought her into classes to speak to graduate
students and undergraduate students to have conversations about
what the field looks like, the state of the field, the past of the
field. I think I utilize mom in a different way than she utilizes
me, and I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. But I
utilize mom as a, these are the things that are going on. How have
you seen this present itself in the past? How do you think I can
work through this? What is your advice to deal with a person like
this? And it's very, like, specific to a situation versus mom who I
think takes a bigger picture approach when coming to me and asking
questions. I can't think of anything specific.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:18:32]:
I don't know about that. I know I, on occasion, leaned on Kat when
I was trying to understand the mindset of the younger generation. I
knew my children, and I knew kinda where their heads were, although
none of us as parents truly know where our children's mindsets are
all of the time. But I would get her perspective as I was dealing
with issues. And and like you, Kat, I'm trying to think of a
specific incident or incidents that I would lean on you to kinda
have a better understanding of where the minds were of young people
on certain issues, probably, and most likely, political issues or
inclusion issues or not so much history, even though you had a
better sense of the history of the profession than I did because I
was kinda living it while you were studying it. And that makes a
difference because when you're in the midst of something, you don't
really understand all the forces that are coming into play. And
Kathleen had that historical context that would help clarify that.
But I think that's I would say I I used her more often to kinda
make sure I was grounded in the reality of today as opposed to
where I was 20, 30 years ago.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:19:53]:
And I don't know. I think we did lean on each other for a lot of
things. And I, having you as a mother, came with a lot of
privilege. At NASPA Conferences, I wasn't really hanging out with
people my age. I was hanging out with mom and her friends. And
that's just, you know, I would stay with mom because I was a young
individual who didn't have a lot of money. So I would tag along to
those types of things. And so I got perspective from giants in the
field that have really helped shape where I've come in my
understanding of the big picture student affairs higher ed.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:20:25]:
And then I think my day to day interactions with students keeps me
grounded in that sense and just being younger than mom and her
friends. So I do think we lean it on each other. And I mom, when I
was saying the big picture piece, and maybe you didn't realize
this, sometimes you just would call and I would then give you
perspective of you've been in this field for how long, and you
still need to make sure you're taking care of yourself.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:20:49]:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:20:49]:
It's the little things that we sometimes forget when we're taking
care of others, and mom take loves to take care of others and
sometimes forgets about herself in that process. And I'm like,
literally what you tell your staff, it's what you tell your
students to do. And I have to be the reminder for her sometimes.
And so that's where I think that I've helped you over the
years.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:21:09]:
You've hit something there on the head. And I know all of us in
student affairs, you know, we have a finite group on whom we can
lean when we're struggling with an issue. When I was vice
chancellor and I faced a certain issue, and I was the only vice
chancellor for student affairs on my campus. So I leaned on my
colleagues across the country. How did you deal with this issue?
What suggestions would you have under these circumstances? And that
kind of thing. And I think there were times when I leaned on Kat,
not necessarily the high level decisions that I had to make, but I
knew she knew the field. And if I had an issue that I needed to
talk through, there were times I would call Kat and say, okay. I'm
dealing with a student and here's the situation.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:21:53]:
What are your thoughts on this? How would you address this if you
had to face this situation? So there was that common core of what
we were doing in the field, but looking at it from different
perspectives, from different generations that I think enriched both
of us.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:22:10]:
Yeah. I get it. It leads back to the privilege that we had having
each other because there are so many people in this field. Their
families do not understand what they do. And so it's that common
understanding simply that was very helpful for us that we have when
most people in the field do not have that.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:22:28]:
And you really hit a good point there because whenever I know as as
I was maturing in the field and people said, what do you do? And
and I would tell them what I did, and they didn't have a clue. They
didn't understand. And, oh, so you're a teacher. Well, no. That's
not exactly what I do. But you're in education. You I said, no. And
I think from a parent child perspective, that's very true because
we got it.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:22:54]:
We got it. We understood it. Now did you understand it as you were
growing up? Probably not because I would take you to campus to
participate in a fall kickoff celebration where you were there as
the vice chancellor was sitting in the dunking tank or you were
playing games with the spin the what is the reel that you spend to
see what prize you're gonna win. So that's the way you saw student
affairs as a child compared to what you saw it as you matured and
came into the field.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:23:23]:
There's a huge difference between mom and I. Obviously, I am on the
academic side now where I teach student affairs, but I watched mom
when I was younger. And she recalls the fun events, and I recall
those fun events too. I go into braids. I recall child labor and
stuffing orientation packets when I was young, but I also recall
the calls in the middle of the night. I know the big situations
that she had to deal with and I watched her. And when I went into
my master's program, people were like, oh, you wanna be just like
your mom. You wanna be a vice president.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:23:57]:
And I was like, no. I've seen some of the things that I don't want
to do. I am in it for students and student development, but I had
to find my path separately and know that early on I set boundaries
in a way that a lot of young professionals didn't set boundaries
because I watched mom go through what she had to go through. So I
have been able to utilize her experience to define who I am as a
professional. And when you put us side by side, yeah, they're
adorable mom, daughter, student affairs couple, but we are very
different when we talk about approach, when we talk about
personality, when we talk about just how we engage in the world of
student affairs in higher education.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:24:40]:
I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. And so
this is our season finale for season 11. And so you're going to be
the last pair to answer in this particular year, but we'll be
continuing with these questions as we kick off season 12. Our
question on the past is what's one component of the history of the
student affairs profession that you think that we should continue
to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:25:05]:
Oh, that's a tough question.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:25:07]:
I know my answer. It very much is the holistic student. We should
absolutely that is the foundation of the field. It is a concept
that we established in 1937 before anybody else. It is a concept
that we still hold today of our students have so much to who they
are, all of their identities, and we need to be focused on the
whole student, not just their academics, not just the one off
involvement, but who are they and how are they fulfilling their
purpose. And so 100% with the founders of student affairs, holistic
student development.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:25:42]:
Well, and I think an a part of that as as I think about this
question a little bit more centers on student learning. I think
that we did not focus on student learning in the earlier years of
the student affairs profession. We focused on student development,
but more from a social and emotional basis. And we really, over the
years, have come to realize that student learning is just as
important, if not more important, to, as Kathleen says, their
holistic development. What is it that they learn from their
involvement outside the classroom? What is it that they learn
outside the classroom that can complement what they're learning in
the classroom and will carry forward in terms of their careers?
Because there are natural ties between those learning outcomes in
terms of running a student organization, managing its budget,
developing its bylaws, and so on and so forth that just carry
forward into a professional career. Similarly, student
organizations that focus on service. And as generations of students
have come through, we've seen some generations who really focus on
serving others as opposed to other times when they focus more on me
me me I I. And that kinda is a cycle in a sense, but we've gotten
to the point where serving others, it's still very important, but
more recently than not, I feel like people are moving away from
that in the field because they're more focused on the individualism
of learning and preparing for their future.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:27:27]:
And we've got to remember that we need to help preparing for their
future. And we've got to remember that we need to help each other,
if that makes any sense.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:27:35]:
Coming into the present, what's happening in the field right now
that's going well for student affairs?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:27:39]:
It's easier for me to talk about what doesn't feel good about
what's going on in the field of student affairs. And I know this is
gonna sound somewhat selfish, but I'm almost glad I retired when I
did because there's been a seismic shift in the sense of what the
core principles are upon which student affairs is based. It's much
more of a business than it used to be. I say that on one hand, but
on the other hand, when I think about the mental health crises that
we're dealing with in our society as a whole, but in higher
education, it's nice to see that we've kind of turned the page and
we've really started putting more emphasis, again, it goes back to
that holistic student, onto the mental health dimensions of a
college student and why that matters as they move forward. So it's
like there's 2 sides to that coin. And do I miss the work that I
did in student affairs? Yes. It was stressful work. I just can't
even imagine today how much more stressful it would be for me than
it was when I retired 7 years ago.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:28:44]:
I understand that perspective, and especially if you've been in the
field for that long and watching things shift over time. For me, in
the face of today, in the face of possibilities for the future for
higher education, I'm gonna do something uncharacteristic for the
people that know me listening to the podcast. Now I'm gonna look at
the bright side. Professionals being more able to be adaptive to
what's happening on our campus has increased. Our increased access
to information, to conversations, to people, the many podcasts that
are out there, the many different types of journals and articles
that are coming out around student affairs, leadership. We have so
much access to things that we did not have back 20, 30 years ago.
And our ability to have an impact on what happens in the future.
The ability to take students where they are, help them through
initiatives on a college campus, things like intergroup dialogue,
civil discourse, and really having an impact in helping these
students go forth into the world as good leaders and good followers
to make a difference.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:29:58]:
We have that possibility, and that is the silver lining of where we
are right now. And having people in the field, like like a lot of
my amazing friends and colleagues around the country, around the
world who are doing this work makes me feel hopeful is a word that
I haven't used recently, but hopeful.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:30:18]:
Looking towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field
need to be doing to thrive towards the future?
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:30:24]:
This is hard.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:30:25]:
I think that as a profession, we need to stay focused on the
well-being of the student and focused on providing opportunities
for them to gain diverse perspectives, to help them get comfortable
with respecting those diverse perspectives and knowing themselves
and who they are so that as they move into their careers and as
they move beyond college campuses, they can make a difference in
their communities. Because and I'm gonna use the term leadership.
Community leadership is a critical need in all of its dimensions.
And when I say community, it can be something as small as a civic
organization. It could be a participation in city or county
governance or boards or whatever and beyond, but we need to make
sure that we have college graduates prepared to step to the plate
to make their communities a better place. And they can only do that
if they respect and understand the diverse perspectives and the
diverse populations with whom they work.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:31:40]:
It comes down to the foundation of higher education. We exist for
the public good. And if we exist for the public good, we have to
acknowledge the systems in place. And we have to acknowledge power
and oppression. We have to acknowledge what our system as a whole
can do for society. And as mom is talking about, we educate the
student for purpose, for leadership. The framework that I'm really
identifying with recently is the leadership for liberation
framework, and it really does help us to shape and empower our
students to go into and it is it is when she says community, it is
their major field. It's their careers.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:32:25]:
Not everything is a student organization. We're gonna have people
working in the shipyard, working on naval ships. We're gonna have
people in going in the military. We have engineers and nurses and
doctors and teachers. And if we're able to equip students with
these soft skills that we've talked about through this podcast,
really, we can help to take these broken systems that exist. And
whether that is for some that need to be dismantled and built back
up, and just providing that support for those students to get to
the next level. Whatever that next level is in their own identity,
in their own purpose. If we are able to do that, then we're doing
what needs to be done in student affairs.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:33:08]:
Because we can't fix the world. Some faculty would like to think
so, but we can't fix the world. But we do have a hand in shaping
it. And that is simply through education, through leadership
learning. And that's all we can do as we move forward in the
unknowable future.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:33:23]:
And I think it's the soft skills that we try and develop and hone
during the college years that are the key for everyone's success in
how to communicate, how to delegate, how to resolve conflict, how
to negotiate conflict but it doesn't have to be conflict. How we
negotiate, how do we manage our energy and our time, How do we
strategically some of these soft skills are so important and that's
where I think student affairs can shine and has been a shining star
in terms of student development over the years. And I just have to
say this at this juncture. Again, I was kind of back at the cusp,
so to speak, not at the very beginning of student affairs, but I
was early on in becoming the profession that it is today. And there
were a lot of things I didn't know. And listening to Kat talk
today, I am so proud of what she's become because she is exuding
the professionalism, the energy, and the knowledge that I think is
central to our success as a profession in higher education.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:34:37]:
On the flip side of that, and it is who I am as a person is I look
to some of my colleagues who wouldn't have the opportunity to be in
this conversation, who are 10 times the person that I might ever
want to become. And those are the voices that I go to when I'm lost
in the field. We learn a lot of things. We have access to a lot of
information, but we need to make sure that we are empowering the
voices of others along this journey because it's my former
classmates in my PhD program. It is my colleagues that I've been
working with both at my university and within NASPA and IASIS and
around the world that have really gotten me to where I am today.
And I wouldn't be here without that, as well as mom and her peers.
But I think we have a lot of great examples in our field of who to
look to. I just wanna shine light on others in this field who are
doing the work every single day that didn't have the opportunity to
have their mother in the field and understand what's going on.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:35:40]:
They're doing the good work regardless.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:35:42]:
Well and I think that speaks to the family that student affairs
professionals is. We are a family, and we lean on each other
whether we're related by blood as Kat and I are, as mother
daughter. But in general, we are a family. I count among my closest
friends and sisters, people that I've grown to love over the years
in the field. And there is so much light, shall we say, at the end
of the tunnel when you think of the people that we meet in the
field of student affairs, when you think of the people we lean on
in the world of student affairs. Even in retirement, I will tell
you, I lean on colleagues, some of whom are also retired, But we
support each other, we help each other, and we recognize the
important work that we've done and that we see moving forward among
the students that we have impacted during our careers. There's
nothing that feels better than hearing from a former student about
the difference we made in their lives while they were on our
college campuses. And there's nothing better, nothing more
satisfying for all of us.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:36:57]:
I mean, I can say it about Kat because she's my daughter, but I can
also say it about a lot of other young people and now not so young
people given how long I was in the field. I did make a difference
in their lives, and they make a difference in mine.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:37:11]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's
so much happening in NASPA. Coming up on February 18, 2025 is a
special professional development opportunity. It is a live web
event entitled the First Amendment in Student Activism, a
collaborative and culturally responsive approach to developing
community. This is brought to you by NASPA advisory services. This
webinar will offer a primer on how the First Amendment comes into
play in the public square on a public university campus, Following
the establishment of a legal and policy foundation, presenters will
offer a framework to explore the creation, implementation and
outcomes of an effective first amendment and student activism task
force. The overarching goal of the presentation is to position
attendees to lead and participate in meaningful institutional
evolutions that can address the many competing demands related to
free speech on public campuses. Learnt skills will include
consideration of the equitable implementation of the protocol,
development of user friendly educational resources, communication
strategies, legal implications, safety, finances, planning,
logistics, and community relations.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:38:35]:
As mentioned, this is on February 18, 2025 and you can access more
information about it or register for it on the NASPA online
learning community. Go to learning.naspa.org for more information.
One of the new publications that came out from NASPA this year was
a book entitled Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar
Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. This book edited by
Jackie Clark and Jeanette Smith, examines critical issues pertinent
to today's work on serving college students and the professionals
who support them. In this comprehensive volume, distinguished
scholars and practitioners offer unique insights into
a diverse range of topics, practitioners offer unique insights
into a diverse range of topics facing higher education and student
affairs. Some chapters address HESA matters that have been central
to professional preparation for decades. Others concern aspects
that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter
is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and one
faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich
conversation that addresses both professionals in practice,
students and faculty and preparation programs. The content can be
directly used in practice or in or to generate critical lively
conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included
excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. You
can find out more in the NASPA bookstore.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:40:02]:
The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is
happening February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The
2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the
association's premier event designated for student affairs
practitioners supporting military connected students. This
symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based
practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from
leading researchers in the field and engage with other
professionals committed to supporting military connected students.
This 3 day symposium features keynote sessions, research policy and
best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help
campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and
services for military connected students. We invite you to connect
with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from
dynamic plenary sessions. Find out more on the NASPA website. And
finally today, a new issue of the Leadership Exchange came out just
recently.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:41:06]:
And in this, this issue is focused on the enduring power of
historically black colleges and universities. Entitled HBCU Strong,
there are a ton of articles talking about the power of HBCUs as
well as the importance of these institutions throughout our
country. I highly encourage you no matter where you are in your own
journey to check out this issue, it is a part of the professional
development that you have access to through the NASPA website and
through your NASPA membership. If you go to the NASPA website, you
can find it very easily by going to naspa.org, go to publications,
and then the Leadership Exchange Magazine. Every week, we're going
to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the
association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to
date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to
get involved in different ways because the association is as strong
as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within
the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge
community, giving back within one of the the centers or the
divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's
important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit?
Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will
share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to
be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity
to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge
community.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:42:49]:
I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other
ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available
right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your
gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members
within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are
stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as
we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:19]:
Chris, thank you so much for wrapping up season 11 with this NASPA
world. We always really appreciate what's going on in and around
NASPA. Alright. Cherry and Cat, we have reached our lightning
round. So I have 7 questions for the 2 of you to answer. We usually
give about 90 seconds for a single guest, so we'll give you like 2
minutes for this. Alright. Question 1.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:39]:
If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance
music be?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:43:42]:
I'm gonna say, We Are the World.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:43:45]:
Yeah. Bring them out. Hi, Tia.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:47]:
Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when
you grew up?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:43:51]:
An army nurse.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:43:53]:
Dolphin trainer.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:54]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:43:57]:
My second supervisor in student affairs, Jim Allen, who was vice
chancellor for student affairs when I was hired to work at UNC
Greensboro.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:44:09]:
It's a tie between Bob Schwartz and Kathy Guthrie.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:44:12]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:44:14]:
Servant leadership.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:44:15]:
Mine is Denny Robert leadership in higher education. I don't
remember the exact title.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:44:20]:
Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. The Voice.
Heartstopper. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours
listening to in the last year.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:44:28]:
You're not gonna like the answer to this question. I don't listen
to podcast.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:44:32]:
It's called Scholar Tea.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:44:33]:
And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal
or professional?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:44:37]:
I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Kevin Kruger,
whose support over the many years he served on NASPA staff and all
the support that he gave me as I grew to become a NASPA leader. I
was on the NASPA board when he was first hired by Liz Nuss, and I
was impressed by his youthfulness and his energy. And he truly has
inspired me over the many, many years in terms of his leadership
style, his capacity to make change at a time when change was
needed.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:45:11]:
I have so many. I wouldn't be here without all of mom's friends.
Kevin, obviously, Gwen Dungy, Cree Kevin, Lisa, v, Sally, Shauna.
All my friends already called out Bob and Kathy. All my professors,
Tom Miller.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:45:24]:
Oh, I could give a whole litany of of long names too, but I just
stopped with the one, but I could give you a dozen right off the
top of my head.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:31]:
It's been such a pleasure to learn from both of you today and hear
your different perspectives on how you approach the work. We really
appreciate you both taking the time to spend some time with us
today. And if others would like to learn from you after the show,
how can they find you?
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:45:43]:
The easiest way to find me, although I will be honest, I don't
check it all the time, is through my UNCG email address, which is
cmcalla@uncg.edu. I'm also in LinkedIn if you ever think about
wanting to check there. But again, I'm retired, so don't count on
immediate responses if you need them. Go through Kat and you can
get to me.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:46:09]:
I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram, doctor Kat Wolf 21.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:14]:
Thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.
Dr. Kat
Callahan [00:46:17]:
Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it.
Dr. Cherry
Callahan [00:46:20]:
Yes. It's been fun. Thank you, Jill.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:26]:
This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you
by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners.
We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with
us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices
at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l
Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest
suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague
about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other
student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more
visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was
produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced
and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the
University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this
project. Catch you next time.