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SA Voices From the Field


Dec 19, 2024

In the latest episode of NASPA’s Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton dive deep into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Joined by Dr. Cherry Callahan, former Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and her daughter, Dr. Kat Callahan, a Senior Lecturer in Leadership Studies, the episode unveils diverse career pathways and shifting priorities within student affairs.

Accidental Beginnings and Varied Career Paths

Dr. Cherry Callahan’s entry into student affairs was anything but traditional. Originally aiming to be a high school counselor, her career trajectory shifted after accepting a counseling position at Delaware State College. Her involvement in orientation programs led to a formal role as the Director of Orientation, marking the start of a venerable career. Interestingly, Cherry never worked in residence life, a conventional entry point for many professionals in the field.

Similarly, Dr. Kat Callahan’s path was unplanned. Without specific career goals during college, she found herself teaching high school and coaching basketball until gravitating towards higher education. Dr. Kat’s focus on leadership education showcases the versatility within student affairs, highlighting the various ways professionals can contribute to holistic student development.

From Emotional Development to Student Learning

Throughout the episode, the Callahans emphasize a significant shift in student affairs from focusing solely on social and emotional development to incorporating student learning and out-of-classroom experiences. This evolution underscores the importance of preparing students not just academically but as well-rounded individuals equipped for life beyond college.

Holistic Student Development and DEI

A consistent theme in Dr. Kat Callahan’s work is the focus on holistic development and leadership education. Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) principles, Kat’s approach ensures that student affairs professionals consider the identities and purposes of students, promoting a comprehensive developmental framework. This paradigm shift is critical in preparing students for leadership roles and fostering a sense of community.

Lessons from History: A Forward-Looking Perspective

The Callahans also reflect on the influences of civil rights and women’s movements on student affairs. Dr. Cherry Callahan recounts her experiences fostering positive student engagement amidst historical turbulence. Both guests acknowledge the increased emphasis on mental health and business-like operations in contemporary student affairs, suggesting a mixed yet hopeful outlook for the profession’s future.

Empowerment and Mentorship

Empowerment is a central theme in the Callahans' discussion. Dr. Kat Callahan leverages her mother’s extensive knowledge, bringing her into classrooms to share insights with students. This intergenerational dialogue enhances learning, bridging historical perspectives with current practices. Such mentorship underscores the familial bond within the student affairs community, vital for professional growth.

A Vision for the Future

As we look ahead, the Callahans advocate for prioritizing student well-being, understanding systemic issues, and continuously adapting educational programs. Their insights remind us of the enduring impact of student affairs on shaping resilient, socially conscious leaders.

In conclusion, this episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field” brings forth invaluable lessons and reinforces the importance of diverse pathways, holistic development, and inclusive practices in student affairs. With professionals like Dr. Cherry and Dr. Kat Callahan leading the charge, the future of student affairs looks promising, well-equipped to tackle modern challenges while nurturing the leaders of tomorrow.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on our season finale of Essay Voices From the Field, we have a very special look into the past, present, and future of student affairs. And for the very first time, we're featuring a mother and a daughter, both professionals in student affairs who can share the arc of their careers as well as the arc of the profession. So it's my sincere pleasure to welcome doctor Cherry Callahan and doctor Kat Callahan. Doctor Cherry m Callahan served as vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro until December of 2017. Upon her retirement, Cherry received the order of the longleaf pine, among the most prestigious awards presented by the governor of North Carolina, recognizing extraordinary service to the state.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:10]:
Her first professional position was at Delaware State University where she served as a counselor and director of orientation followed by a brief period as an elementary school counselor before moving to UNCG where she assumed progressively responsible roles culminating in the vice chancellor position. Cherry has been very active and professionally served as president of NASPA in 1998 to 1999. She more recently served as the chair of the NASPA Foundation board of directors and was the recipient of the John l Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award in 2024 and the Fred Turner Award for for distinguished service to NASPA in 2006. Doctor Callahan has served as an elected officer for the board in numerous community and civic organizations. Her primary current community service is with the American Red Cross in which she serves as the North Carolina region training lead for disaster services and also an instructor for disaster classes. Cherry has presented dozens of programs and speeches at professional meetings, served on accreditation teams for SACS and review teams for other colleges and universities, and authored and co-authored several articles and chapters in various publications. She's married to her husband, Mike, who taught history in the Guilford County School System for 30 years, and has 2 daughters, Megan, who's an attorney in Greensboro, and Kathleen, who's on the faculty in the department of leadership and American studies at Christopher Newport University. Our second guest is Doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:24]:
Kat Callahan, who is currently a senior lecturer in Leadership Studies at Christopher Newport University with expertise in education, student affairs and higher education, and internationalization of higher ed. She earned a PhD in Higher Education from Florida State University, an MED in College Student Affairs from the University of South Florida, and a BA in sociology from NC State University. Doctor Callahan has developed leadership curricula, advised students, and served in academic and administrative roles at institutions, including William and Mary, Florida State University, and Winthrop University. Her research and teaching focuses on cultural relevance in leadership education and development and the internationalization of the history of student affairs in higher education. She is published widely, contributed to global leadership initiatives, and held leadership roles in NASPA, the International Leadership Association, and IACIS. Doctor Callahan is the director of the IACIS Student Leader Global Summit and an experienced keynote speaker and workshop facilitator. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I loved having it, and we'll see you next season. I'm very excited to have our our very first parent child student affairs professional duo on the show today to talk about the past, present, and future of student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:31]:
So first, let me welcome pillar of the profession, doctor Cherry Callahan.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:03:35]:
Hi, Jill. It's really my pleasure to be here with you today and my daughter.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:39]:
And also Dr. Kat Callahan.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:03:41]:
Hi, everyone. Thanks for having us, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:44]:
When Chris and I were incepting how we wanted to present the arc of the past, present, and future of student affairs, it just immediately came to mind. Do we have any families that are doing this work or have done this work across time? All of us, I think, like to joke that really no one grows up saying I wanna be a student affairs professional. But, Cherry, you might be the exception to this rule. Oh, you're you're shaking your head no. We'll get into that for sure. But, Cherry, you're retired from the field now. Cherry, you're deep in your career in the field. We always like to start our show by asking our guests how they got to our current seat.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:16]:
So, Cherry, yours being retirement. But can you tell us a little bit about your career arc into and through the profession?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:04:23]:
Okay. I guess it all goes back to the day when I was leader as an undergrad and very involved in the co curriculum. And I never really thought about student affairs even at that point because my ultimate goal at that time was to become a public school high school counselor. So I actually did a master's degree in counseling. And on the eve of my marriage to my husband, Kat's dad, I became aware of a position at a college in Delaware, Delaware State College, now Delaware State University, and they were advertising for a counselor. And Mike being from Massachusetts and me being from the Carolinas, we had kinda decided we wanted to live somewhere between the two geographic spaces. So I looked at it and I went in for the interview 2 weeks before our wedding and got the job. So I landed in a college counseling center quite by accident because it ultimately was not my goal.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:24]:
And before you knew it, I was observing the orientation program and I said to the dean of students who hired me, I've got some thoughts about orientation. Would you be willing to listen to them? He said, sure. So 2 days later, I had the title director of orientation slapped on my shoulders along with the counselor and that's what really kick started my career in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:46]:
That was a very busy week for you here.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:48]:
Busy. Yes. Yes. But pretty typical of my life as a whole. They're all pretty busy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:55]:
And, Kat, you are currently working at Christopher Newport University. Can you tell us how you landed in your current seat?

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:00]:
Yes. So, unlike mom, I did not have goals in college. I was an RA, and I played intramural sports. That was what I knew about student affairs, and obviously my mother was the vice chancellor of student affairs. Yet, I never drew those parallels. But I did not know what I wanted to do after college. So I took a year off, and I ended up teaching high school and coaching basketball as following my father's footsteps. And then about halfway through the year, I was like, you know, I really liked that RA job.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:28]:
Maybe there's something to that. So went through student affairs, went through my graduate program, went through my entry level job, be one of the typical routes through residence life, and into my PhD. And in my PhD, transitioned to leadership education, leadership development. So that's how I landed as a senior lecturer in leadership studies where I am today.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:06:48]:
And, you know, it's interesting that I am one of a rare breed who never worked in residence life. I came through counseling, and as I've interacted with my peers over the years, almost everybody's been in residence life in one shape or another. I was never even an RA. So I'm a little atypical from that in that perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]:
You and I share that, Cherry. I did not serve as an RA in undergrad, and I did not have a hall director position or even an assistant directorship or directorship in residence life. I was more raised in the student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion, and then finally, student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion. And then finally, student conduct was kind of the primary thread through, how I got started in student affairs. But I did end up supervising residence life when I was in an AVP seat. So we are out there if you're listening, and you're like, how do I do this without ResLife?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:36]:
That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:36]:
Jerry, can you talk a little bit about what the profession was like when you first entered the field in terms of the value set that you were operating through, the priorities of the profession, that type of thing?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:48]:
Quite different from what it is today. There's no question about that. And I think the primary mindset was focused on how to get students engaged in their curricular life. It's always been there, but I think my supervisor at that time was born out of the civil rights movement, the women's movement. And that really bore the, I guess, the hallmark of student conduct and how students behaved. And so student affairs was leaned on to how can we get our students engaged in positive ways as opposed to protest and so forth. So we were more of a, I hate to use the word judicial, but I guess conduct focused. And my role in that and when I'm talking about my supervisor at that time, that was my supervisor at my second higher education job.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:08:41]:
At my first higher education job at Delaware State, it was really more focused on helping the students adjust to this new environment and getting them actively engaged in that new environment away from home and helping them understand the challenges that come with pursuing a college degree amongst a population where college degrees were not as common. Because as many people know, Delaware State is an HBCU, and I was somewhat of an anomaly in that environment because I was a young white female. But it really did focus on that adjustment period and that in loco parentis domain. And then as I transitioned a few years later into the position at the University of North Carolina from where I ultimately retired, there was a little bit of that left, but a lot of it had dissipated because of all of the social movements that were taking place in the early seventies.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:41]:
And it's probably swinging back towards a more model now, especially from a student care perspective as we're seeing the mental health concerns of college students come more to the forefront of our work. So, Kat, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you see the current state of the profession, especially in terms of what your priorities are in teaching.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:00]:
So it's always fun with these types of conversations just because my specific area of knowledge within the student affairs field is the history of student affairs. So I teach history of, and so listening to mom talk about that evolution, and as we've learned from all of our history textbooks, it started within loco parentis, and it has evolved in a lot of different ways. And I think we know from history that things kinda circle back in different capacities. So how I teach my students today is probably very different than I would have taught 20 years ago when I first entered into the field. And I've seen a couple shifts already within the 15 years that I've been teaching. And this year specifically has a new type of student on campus that I'm in the probably the last shift I had before that was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Definitely, our diversity, equity, and inclusion, that piece of conversation is consistent, has been consistent in my entire time in the field. And now it's a theme that we talk about all the time.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:58]:
And here in Virginia where I am, DEI is a hot topic because we have to look at the state and the federal government when we're talking about these types of things. So the context matters, and context within student affairs matters. So DEI is a big theme in teaching. When you teach leadership education as a whole, leadership has evolved. So I say alongside of the field of student affairs is the field of leadership studies. You can see this in Suzette Kovev Ed's work and Denny Roberts and how they in the beginning when mom's talking about her 1st years in student affairs, that is kind of the beginning of leadership studies. So these 2 stepchildren of fields are walking side by side in a very interesting way and evolving. Student development is evolving at the very beginning when mom started and has a good foothold in the early 2000 when I get into the field.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:11:51]:
I get into conversations within my master's program. So student development has a stronghold. Leadership development has a stronghold, and these two things just evolve in this very beautiful way that I don't know if a lot of people see the connection between the 2, which has led me to create my leadership in higher education class, where I bring those two fields together, and we talk about the history of, because we have to know context of all things. History of student affairs, history of higher education, and history of education leadership development through where we are today and the complexity nature of things. Obviously, the conversation around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and really the critical conversations and critical theory that's coming through that did not exist 20 years ago. So I would say all of these pieces of the curriculum have evolved and are now cornerstones in how we do both student affairs, higher education, and leadership.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:12:49]:
I was just gonna mention that I know in it was in 1979, I believe, when at the university, I recognized the First Gay Student Association. And it was not well received by the alumni of the university. And there were all kinds of calls for we're no longer gonna donate to the university. We're not gonna do this. And so I go back to that time, and I think about it. Again, that was 1979, and this was at UNC Greensboro, which previously had been the Woman's College of the University of North Carolina System. So it had always been focused on educating women. And so when we got to the late seventies, and then it was into the early eighties when we established our first, what we call, Office of Minority Student Affairs.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:13:41]:
So I guess when I listened to Kat talk about DEI, I was on the cusp of those developments in the field of student affairs as we created and recognized those populations who were not the traditional white male and female populations. And a lot has transpired over the years since that time. In fact, it's it's amazing to me how slow at times it seems to have been, but how fast in the context of history we have gotten to the point that we are cognizant of the richness that lies in the diversity not only of ideas in higher education, but diversity of the populations with whom we work in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:27]:
That's a really important reminder to all of us who I think are very much struggling with the current landscape of JEDIB work in America. It often feels like one step forward, 3, 5, 10 steps backwards. And also to remember that when the profession was just starting to emerge, none of these things existed. So there is tangible progress, but there's still so much work to be done for sure.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:14:51]:
And, you know, last week, I was actually at William and Mary. I took my leadership in higher education class to William and Mary because we go look at the Wren building, the the the oldest building that exists within the United States higher education system, in which we talk about the Lemon Project. And and that's the recognition of enslaved individuals who contributed to the university and and built the university. And the point came across that William and Mary has owned slaves longer than they have not owned slaves today. And just that point of context also is an important reminder of the long term effects of this country and how we built higher education as a whole.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:30]:
And an important reminder that the history of enslaved people in the United States is not just in the fabric of society, but it's also baked into our higher education system. And and then when we look at oppression of students of color in particular in higher ed, it it's easy to trace a line through the origins. So that is a disturbing fact as well. And William and Mary is founded, what, 15 30 4 ish? Late 1600. Late 1600. Oh, I'm sorry, doctor Tom Sherman, for forgetting my date from my higher ed history class. But in all of that, kind of keeping that in our history lessons, I think, is a really critical element of looking forward. And I wonder too how our curriculum may or may not change based on legislation that may or may not be coming over the next couple of years.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:16:13]:
That raises an interesting question because, the curriculum has had to change over the course of time. And obviously, when it relates to the history and to inclusion initiatives, but also in terms of business. And I hate to put that in there, but how do we move forward in long range planning in terms of developing a budget, in terms of managing personnel and so forth? That was never even a teardrop in the sea of whatever when we were developing our higher education programs. And now it is because we're not a business. We are focused on student services, but yet there are those elements that have kind of crept in to the work that we do in student affairs. And it's particularly important as you advance in the field and you move into management positions that you carry that skill set forward as well. That didn't exist when I came through. I was trained to be a counselor period.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:14]:
And then all of a sudden, it kinda lands in your lap and you say, oh, I don't know how to do this. So, yes, we need to constantly continue to assess what we're teaching in our programs and make sure that it's relevant.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:28]:
I'm wondering if the 2 of you can talk about how you've utilized each other's expertise, experiences, and generational viewpoints to approach the work and to learn from each other.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:38]:
I'm gonna let Kat yeah. No. I'm gonna let you speak to that first Kat.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:17:41]:
Because I've come to you a lot. Yeah. I mean, at the very beginning of my career, I looked to mom a lot just because she had this vast knowledge of the system of both higher education and student affairs. And I've brought her into classes to speak to graduate students and undergraduate students to have conversations about what the field looks like, the state of the field, the past of the field. I think I utilize mom in a different way than she utilizes me, and I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. But I utilize mom as a, these are the things that are going on. How have you seen this present itself in the past? How do you think I can work through this? What is your advice to deal with a person like this? And it's very, like, specific to a situation versus mom who I think takes a bigger picture approach when coming to me and asking questions. I can't think of anything specific.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:18:32]:
I don't know about that. I know I, on occasion, leaned on Kat when I was trying to understand the mindset of the younger generation. I knew my children, and I knew kinda where their heads were, although none of us as parents truly know where our children's mindsets are all of the time. But I would get her perspective as I was dealing with issues. And and like you, Kat, I'm trying to think of a specific incident or incidents that I would lean on you to kinda have a better understanding of where the minds were of young people on certain issues, probably, and most likely, political issues or inclusion issues or not so much history, even though you had a better sense of the history of the profession than I did because I was kinda living it while you were studying it. And that makes a difference because when you're in the midst of something, you don't really understand all the forces that are coming into play. And Kathleen had that historical context that would help clarify that. But I think that's I would say I I used her more often to kinda make sure I was grounded in the reality of today as opposed to where I was 20, 30 years ago.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:19:53]:
And I don't know. I think we did lean on each other for a lot of things. And I, having you as a mother, came with a lot of privilege. At NASPA Conferences, I wasn't really hanging out with people my age. I was hanging out with mom and her friends. And that's just, you know, I would stay with mom because I was a young individual who didn't have a lot of money. So I would tag along to those types of things. And so I got perspective from giants in the field that have really helped shape where I've come in my understanding of the big picture student affairs higher ed.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:25]:
And then I think my day to day interactions with students keeps me grounded in that sense and just being younger than mom and her friends. So I do think we lean it on each other. And I mom, when I was saying the big picture piece, and maybe you didn't realize this, sometimes you just would call and I would then give you perspective of you've been in this field for how long, and you still need to make sure you're taking care of yourself.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:20:49]:
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:49]:
It's the little things that we sometimes forget when we're taking care of others, and mom take loves to take care of others and sometimes forgets about herself in that process. And I'm like, literally what you tell your staff, it's what you tell your students to do. And I have to be the reminder for her sometimes. And so that's where I think that I've helped you over the years.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:09]:
You've hit something there on the head. And I know all of us in student affairs, you know, we have a finite group on whom we can lean when we're struggling with an issue. When I was vice chancellor and I faced a certain issue, and I was the only vice chancellor for student affairs on my campus. So I leaned on my colleagues across the country. How did you deal with this issue? What suggestions would you have under these circumstances? And that kind of thing. And I think there were times when I leaned on Kat, not necessarily the high level decisions that I had to make, but I knew she knew the field. And if I had an issue that I needed to talk through, there were times I would call Kat and say, okay. I'm dealing with a student and here's the situation.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:53]:
What are your thoughts on this? How would you address this if you had to face this situation? So there was that common core of what we were doing in the field, but looking at it from different perspectives, from different generations that I think enriched both of us.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:22:10]:
Yeah. I get it. It leads back to the privilege that we had having each other because there are so many people in this field. Their families do not understand what they do. And so it's that common understanding simply that was very helpful for us that we have when most people in the field do not have that.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:28]:
And you really hit a good point there because whenever I know as as I was maturing in the field and people said, what do you do? And and I would tell them what I did, and they didn't have a clue. They didn't understand. And, oh, so you're a teacher. Well, no. That's not exactly what I do. But you're in education. You I said, no. And I think from a parent child perspective, that's very true because we got it.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:54]:
We got it. We understood it. Now did you understand it as you were growing up? Probably not because I would take you to campus to participate in a fall kickoff celebration where you were there as the vice chancellor was sitting in the dunking tank or you were playing games with the spin the what is the reel that you spend to see what prize you're gonna win. So that's the way you saw student affairs as a child compared to what you saw it as you matured and came into the field.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:23]:
There's a huge difference between mom and I. Obviously, I am on the academic side now where I teach student affairs, but I watched mom when I was younger. And she recalls the fun events, and I recall those fun events too. I go into braids. I recall child labor and stuffing orientation packets when I was young, but I also recall the calls in the middle of the night. I know the big situations that she had to deal with and I watched her. And when I went into my master's program, people were like, oh, you wanna be just like your mom. You wanna be a vice president.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:57]:
And I was like, no. I've seen some of the things that I don't want to do. I am in it for students and student development, but I had to find my path separately and know that early on I set boundaries in a way that a lot of young professionals didn't set boundaries because I watched mom go through what she had to go through. So I have been able to utilize her experience to define who I am as a professional. And when you put us side by side, yeah, they're adorable mom, daughter, student affairs couple, but we are very different when we talk about approach, when we talk about personality, when we talk about just how we engage in the world of student affairs in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:40]:
I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. And so this is our season finale for season 11. And so you're going to be the last pair to answer in this particular year, but we'll be continuing with these questions as we kick off season 12. Our question on the past is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:05]:
Oh, that's a tough question.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:25:07]:
I know my answer. It very much is the holistic student. We should absolutely that is the foundation of the field. It is a concept that we established in 1937 before anybody else. It is a concept that we still hold today of our students have so much to who they are, all of their identities, and we need to be focused on the whole student, not just their academics, not just the one off involvement, but who are they and how are they fulfilling their purpose. And so 100% with the founders of student affairs, holistic student development.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:42]:
Well, and I think an a part of that as as I think about this question a little bit more centers on student learning. I think that we did not focus on student learning in the earlier years of the student affairs profession. We focused on student development, but more from a social and emotional basis. And we really, over the years, have come to realize that student learning is just as important, if not more important, to, as Kathleen says, their holistic development. What is it that they learn from their involvement outside the classroom? What is it that they learn outside the classroom that can complement what they're learning in the classroom and will carry forward in terms of their careers? Because there are natural ties between those learning outcomes in terms of running a student organization, managing its budget, developing its bylaws, and so on and so forth that just carry forward into a professional career. Similarly, student organizations that focus on service. And as generations of students have come through, we've seen some generations who really focus on serving others as opposed to other times when they focus more on me me me I I. And that kinda is a cycle in a sense, but we've gotten to the point where serving others, it's still very important, but more recently than not, I feel like people are moving away from that in the field because they're more focused on the individualism of learning and preparing for their future.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:27]:
And we've got to remember that we need to help preparing for their future. And we've got to remember that we need to help each other, if that makes any sense.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:35]:
Coming into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:39]:
It's easier for me to talk about what doesn't feel good about what's going on in the field of student affairs. And I know this is gonna sound somewhat selfish, but I'm almost glad I retired when I did because there's been a seismic shift in the sense of what the core principles are upon which student affairs is based. It's much more of a business than it used to be. I say that on one hand, but on the other hand, when I think about the mental health crises that we're dealing with in our society as a whole, but in higher education, it's nice to see that we've kind of turned the page and we've really started putting more emphasis, again, it goes back to that holistic student, onto the mental health dimensions of a college student and why that matters as they move forward. So it's like there's 2 sides to that coin. And do I miss the work that I did in student affairs? Yes. It was stressful work. I just can't even imagine today how much more stressful it would be for me than it was when I retired 7 years ago.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:28:44]:
I understand that perspective, and especially if you've been in the field for that long and watching things shift over time. For me, in the face of today, in the face of possibilities for the future for higher education, I'm gonna do something uncharacteristic for the people that know me listening to the podcast. Now I'm gonna look at the bright side. Professionals being more able to be adaptive to what's happening on our campus has increased. Our increased access to information, to conversations, to people, the many podcasts that are out there, the many different types of journals and articles that are coming out around student affairs, leadership. We have so much access to things that we did not have back 20, 30 years ago. And our ability to have an impact on what happens in the future. The ability to take students where they are, help them through initiatives on a college campus, things like intergroup dialogue, civil discourse, and really having an impact in helping these students go forth into the world as good leaders and good followers to make a difference.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:29:58]:
We have that possibility, and that is the silver lining of where we are right now. And having people in the field, like like a lot of my amazing friends and colleagues around the country, around the world who are doing this work makes me feel hopeful is a word that I haven't used recently, but hopeful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:18]:
Looking towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:30:24]:
This is hard.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:30:25]:
I think that as a profession, we need to stay focused on the well-being of the student and focused on providing opportunities for them to gain diverse perspectives, to help them get comfortable with respecting those diverse perspectives and knowing themselves and who they are so that as they move into their careers and as they move beyond college campuses, they can make a difference in their communities. Because and I'm gonna use the term leadership. Community leadership is a critical need in all of its dimensions. And when I say community, it can be something as small as a civic organization. It could be a participation in city or county governance or boards or whatever and beyond, but we need to make sure that we have college graduates prepared to step to the plate to make their communities a better place. And they can only do that if they respect and understand the diverse perspectives and the diverse populations with whom they work.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:31:40]:
It comes down to the foundation of higher education. We exist for the public good. And if we exist for the public good, we have to acknowledge the systems in place. And we have to acknowledge power and oppression. We have to acknowledge what our system as a whole can do for society. And as mom is talking about, we educate the student for purpose, for leadership. The framework that I'm really identifying with recently is the leadership for liberation framework, and it really does help us to shape and empower our students to go into and it is it is when she says community, it is their major field. It's their careers.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:32:25]:
Not everything is a student organization. We're gonna have people working in the shipyard, working on naval ships. We're gonna have people in going in the military. We have engineers and nurses and doctors and teachers. And if we're able to equip students with these soft skills that we've talked about through this podcast, really, we can help to take these broken systems that exist. And whether that is for some that need to be dismantled and built back up, and just providing that support for those students to get to the next level. Whatever that next level is in their own identity, in their own purpose. If we are able to do that, then we're doing what needs to be done in student affairs.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:33:08]:
Because we can't fix the world. Some faculty would like to think so, but we can't fix the world. But we do have a hand in shaping it. And that is simply through education, through leadership learning. And that's all we can do as we move forward in the unknowable future.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:33:23]:
And I think it's the soft skills that we try and develop and hone during the college years that are the key for everyone's success in how to communicate, how to delegate, how to resolve conflict, how to negotiate conflict but it doesn't have to be conflict. How we negotiate, how do we manage our energy and our time, How do we strategically some of these soft skills are so important and that's where I think student affairs can shine and has been a shining star in terms of student development over the years. And I just have to say this at this juncture. Again, I was kind of back at the cusp, so to speak, not at the very beginning of student affairs, but I was early on in becoming the profession that it is today. And there were a lot of things I didn't know. And listening to Kat talk today, I am so proud of what she's become because she is exuding the professionalism, the energy, and the knowledge that I think is central to our success as a profession in higher education.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:34:37]:
On the flip side of that, and it is who I am as a person is I look to some of my colleagues who wouldn't have the opportunity to be in this conversation, who are 10 times the person that I might ever want to become. And those are the voices that I go to when I'm lost in the field. We learn a lot of things. We have access to a lot of information, but we need to make sure that we are empowering the voices of others along this journey because it's my former classmates in my PhD program. It is my colleagues that I've been working with both at my university and within NASPA and IASIS and around the world that have really gotten me to where I am today. And I wouldn't be here without that, as well as mom and her peers. But I think we have a lot of great examples in our field of who to look to. I just wanna shine light on others in this field who are doing the work every single day that didn't have the opportunity to have their mother in the field and understand what's going on.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:35:40]:
They're doing the good work regardless.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:35:42]:
Well and I think that speaks to the family that student affairs professionals is. We are a family, and we lean on each other whether we're related by blood as Kat and I are, as mother daughter. But in general, we are a family. I count among my closest friends and sisters, people that I've grown to love over the years in the field. And there is so much light, shall we say, at the end of the tunnel when you think of the people that we meet in the field of student affairs, when you think of the people we lean on in the world of student affairs. Even in retirement, I will tell you, I lean on colleagues, some of whom are also retired, But we support each other, we help each other, and we recognize the important work that we've done and that we see moving forward among the students that we have impacted during our careers. There's nothing that feels better than hearing from a former student about the difference we made in their lives while they were on our college campuses. And there's nothing better, nothing more satisfying for all of us.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:36:57]:
I mean, I can say it about Kat because she's my daughter, but I can also say it about a lot of other young people and now not so young people given how long I was in the field. I did make a difference in their lives, and they make a difference in mine.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:11]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. Coming up on February 18, 2025 is a special professional development opportunity. It is a live web event entitled the First Amendment in Student Activism, a collaborative and culturally responsive approach to developing community. This is brought to you by NASPA advisory services. This webinar will offer a primer on how the First Amendment comes into play in the public square on a public university campus, Following the establishment of a legal and policy foundation, presenters will offer a framework to explore the creation, implementation and outcomes of an effective first amendment and student activism task force. The overarching goal of the presentation is to position attendees to lead and participate in meaningful institutional evolutions that can address the many competing demands related to free speech on public campuses. Learnt skills will include consideration of the equitable implementation of the protocol, development of user friendly educational resources, communication strategies, legal implications, safety, finances, planning, logistics, and community relations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:35]:
As mentioned, this is on February 18, 2025 and you can access more information about it or register for it on the NASPA online learning community. Go to learning.naspa.org for more information. One of the new publications that came out from NASPA this year was a book entitled Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. This book edited by Jackie Clark and Jeanette Smith, examines critical issues pertinent to today's work on serving college students and the professionals who support them. In this comprehensive volume, distinguished scholars and practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics, practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics facing higher education and student affairs. Some chapters address HESA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades. Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and one faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice, students and faculty and preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or in or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. You can find out more in the NASPA bookstore.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:02]:
The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is happening February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designated for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. This symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This 3 day symposium features keynote sessions, research policy and best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. We invite you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Find out more on the NASPA website. And finally today, a new issue of the Leadership Exchange came out just recently.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:06]:
And in this, this issue is focused on the enduring power of historically black colleges and universities. Entitled HBCU Strong, there are a ton of articles talking about the power of HBCUs as well as the importance of these institutions throughout our country. I highly encourage you no matter where you are in your own journey to check out this issue, it is a part of the professional development that you have access to through the NASPA website and through your NASPA membership. If you go to the NASPA website, you can find it very easily by going to naspa.org, go to publications, and then the Leadership Exchange Magazine. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:49]:
I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]:
Chris, thank you so much for wrapping up season 11 with this NASPA world. We always really appreciate what's going on in and around NASPA. Alright. Cherry and Cat, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for the 2 of you to answer. We usually give about 90 seconds for a single guest, so we'll give you like 2 minutes for this. Alright. Question 1.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:39]:
If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:42]:
I'm gonna say, We Are the World.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:45]:
Yeah. Bring them out. Hi, Tia.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:47]:
Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:51]:
An army nurse.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:53]:
Dolphin trainer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:54]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:57]:
My second supervisor in student affairs, Jim Allen, who was vice chancellor for student affairs when I was hired to work at UNC Greensboro.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:09]:
It's a tie between Bob Schwartz and Kathy Guthrie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:12]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:14]:
Servant leadership.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:15]:
Mine is Denny Robert leadership in higher education. I don't remember the exact title.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:20]:
Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. The Voice. Heartstopper. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:28]:
You're not gonna like the answer to this question. I don't listen to podcast.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:32]:
It's called Scholar Tea.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:33]:
And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:37]:
I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Kevin Kruger, whose support over the many years he served on NASPA staff and all the support that he gave me as I grew to become a NASPA leader. I was on the NASPA board when he was first hired by Liz Nuss, and I was impressed by his youthfulness and his energy. And he truly has inspired me over the many, many years in terms of his leadership style, his capacity to make change at a time when change was needed.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:45:11]:
I have so many. I wouldn't be here without all of mom's friends. Kevin, obviously, Gwen Dungy, Cree Kevin, Lisa, v, Sally, Shauna. All my friends already called out Bob and Kathy. All my professors, Tom Miller.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:24]:
Oh, I could give a whole litany of of long names too, but I just stopped with the one, but I could give you a dozen right off the top of my head.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:31]:
It's been such a pleasure to learn from both of you today and hear your different perspectives on how you approach the work. We really appreciate you both taking the time to spend some time with us today. And if others would like to learn from you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:43]:
The easiest way to find me, although I will be honest, I don't check it all the time, is through my UNCG email address, which is cmcalla@uncg.edu. I'm also in LinkedIn if you ever think about wanting to check there. But again, I'm retired, so don't count on immediate responses if you need them. Go through Kat and you can get to me.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:09]:
I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram, doctor Kat Wolf 21.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:14]:
Thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:17]:
Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:46:20]:
Yes. It's been fun. Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]:
This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.