Oct 16, 2025
In the newest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, listeners are invited into a candid and inspiring conversation with Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown and Dae’lyn Do, the current Co-Chairs of NASPA’s Women in Student Affairs Knowledge Community (WISA KC). Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, this episode delves deep into what makes student affairs such a meaningful field, particularly through the lens of women’s leadership, mentorship, and wellbeing.
Jessica and Dae’lyn bring a wealth of experience to their roles—Jessica as Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A&M University, and Dae’lyn as Associate Director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan. Both share personal journeys into student affairs, marked by transformative mentorship and a dedication to empowering students from all backgrounds.
One of the episode’s main themes centers on WISA KC’s current focus, encapsulated by the acronym GLOW: Growth, Legacy, Openness, and Wellbeing. As Jessica explains, “We are trying to grow as professionals, leave legacies while honoring those before us, share our authentic stories, and prioritize wellbeing.” The discussion highlights that supporting the whole student—academically, personally, and emotionally—is at the heart of student affairs, and staff need to care for themselves to sustain this important work.
Dae’lyn reflects on how student affairs practitioners understand the field’s value through direct impact in students’ lives, but emphasizes that telling these stories to those outside the field remains a crucial ongoing challenge. She also underscores the importance of wellbeing, especially for women who often take on the nurturing roles on campus.
The episode doesn’t shy away from real-world issues: Jessica shares insights from her dissertation on burnout and turnover among entry-level staff, noting compensation and workload as key factors. Both leaders discuss strategies for supervisors to support early-career professionals, stressing flexibility, recognition, and creative ways to foster growth.
Listeners will find examples of impactful mentorship, stories of overcoming imposter syndrome, and actionable advice for supervisors and colleagues. If you’re interested in connecting with WISA KC, Dae’lyn and Jessica recommend subscribing to their newsletter, joining their LinkedIn group, and exploring volunteer opportunities.
Tune in for practical wisdom, personal stories, and a refreshing focus on wellbeing and authentic leadership in student affairs—this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and community within higher education.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs.
I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your SA voices from the Field
host. Welcome back to our next episode of SA Voices from the Field.
Today we're featuring our NASPA Co-Chairs of the WISA KC Dr.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]:
Jessica Nathan Brown, a native of Birmingham, Alabama, serves as
the Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and
M University where she works to enhance student engagement and
foster a sense of belonging on campus. In her role, she provides
oversight for major campus events, Greek Life, Student Government,
Student Publications, University Royalty Student Organizations,
International Student Support, Parent and Family Engagement, First
Generation Student Initiatives, Freshman Student Transitions, and
Welcome Programming and Leadership Development Initiatives. She
brings nearly a decade of experience in student activities along
with prior experience in residence life. Dr. Brown earned her
Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from Stillman College, her Master's
in Educational Leadership from the University of South Alabama, and
her Doctor of Education in Higher Education Administration from the
University of Southern Mississippi. Professionally, Dr. Brown has
been an active leader within NASPA, serving four years on the NASPA
Alabama Board of Directors as Secretary Treasurer, and four years
as professional Development Co Chair for the Women in Student
affairs, or WISA Knowledge Community. She now serves as the WISA Co
chair for the 2025 through 2027 term and previously held a
leadership role within NACA South.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]:
She currently resides in Decatur, Alabama with her husband Brandon
and their son Brandon Jr. Our second guest is DA Lynn Doe. She her
Dalen serves as the Associate Director for the Women in Science and
Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan.
Originally from Oklahoma, she earned her Bachelor's Degree in
Political Science and Public Relations and Advertising from
Northeastern State University and her Master's degree in College
Stud from Bowling Green State University in Ohio. Having served on
the WISA Casey Leadership Team for almost six years, her
involvement with this community has been an instrumental part of
her journey in student affairs. She's also been an active member of
NASPA since early in her undergrad career, including being part of
the NASPA Undergraduate Fellows Program or the NUPF Program and the
NASPA Graduate Associate Program or the GAP Program, and serving in
a variety of other NASPA volunteer roles. Dalen's experience as a
first generation low income college student is what led her to
student affairs work. She feels a deep sense of purpose in the
field and her goal is to empower students, support them on their
journeys toward receiving a higher education, and open doors for
them to experience the impact of a college education in the same
way that she did.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]:
Dalen believes in values driven leadership and brings her personal
values of integrity, intentionality, authenticity, appreciation and
growth to her work with students. Dalen currently lives in Bowling
Green, Ohio with her partner and their three pugs. Outside of work,
she enjoys playing board games, traveling, spending time outside,
and eating good food. Welcome to season 13 of SA Voices here with
Jessica.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:06]:
Hi everyone.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]:
And Dalen.
Dae'lyn Do [00:03:08]:
Hello.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:09]:
And you two are the current Co Chairs of the Women in Student
Affairs Knowledge Community for naspa, which is one of the largest
knowledge communities in all of naspa. It's an incredible job that
you are both doing. I totally understand why this KC needs co
chairs. It's WISA for short. It's got a huge internal board. It is
super, super active with everything from events to publications and
beyond. So looking forward to talking to you all about what the
work is in wisa. But before we get there, we're going to start with
your day jobs a little bit and we always like to get to know our
guests by asking how did you get to your current seat? And we'll
start with you, Jessica.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:47]:
So my current seat, I am currently the Director of Student
Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and M University. I have
been here since 2023 and how I got here I started in student
affairs, really undergraduate originally my major was psychology.
Wanted to be a therapist and was super involved and so learned that
this was a field. So I then went to do my Master's in higher
education with a GA in residence life. And then I worked at UAB for
7 years in student activities, hence leading me to now this role in
Huntsville.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:19]:
Excellent. What's your dissertation title?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:04:22]:
Okay, try to say the actual it's not going to be exact because I
don't have to say it often, but essentially I did did my research
on burnout in student affairs at the entry level for entry level
staff and what were the causes for staff turnover.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:37]:
That is an incredible piece of research that we desperately need
right now because we know that the field and the dynamics of how we
enter the field are changing. So we're definitely going to come
back to that. But let's get to know Dalen a little bit as well.
Dalen, how did you get to your current seat?
Dae'lyn Do [00:04:50]:
Yes, I love this question. I have a pretty similar story to I guess
a lot of folks in higher ed and student affairs. I of course didn't
know what this was before entering college, but I came into my
undergrad at Northeastern State University in Tahlequah, Oklahoma
as a first generation low income student who originally thought she
was going to become a journalist for the National Geographic. I
wanted to travel the world and take pictures of animals. But as I
was kind of going through my college journey and realizing the
impact that higher education was having on my life and why it was
having that impact, it kept coming back to the people and the
mentors who were supporting me. And so really I kind of learned
early on in my undergrad career that I wanted to do this. And so I
started getting involved with NASPA as early as like my sophomore
year with the nuff program and then started looking into graduate
programs and ended up moving across the country to Bowling Green,
Ohio to do their college student personnel master's program for two
years. And during that program I was an advisor, a scholarship
advisor for the Thompson Scholarship programs, which was a perfect
place for me because I was getting to work with other low income
students, many of them also first gen.
Dae'lyn Do [00:06:06]:
So a lot of students who had very similar stories to mine and that
was, I was really doing the heart work there because it was very
connected to my own journey and getting to support those students.
So after I did my master's program, I actually stayed on full time
in that role for almost three more years before finding my current
role at the University of Michigan. I'm just down the road, so I
wanted to really try to see. I went to a very small regional school
for undergrad and then went to Bowling Green, which was bigger in
D1, but I really wanted to kind of see what impact I could have at
a university as large as the University of Michigan. And it's
definitely been a totally different experience in many ways, but I
think it's definitely been good professionally to grow and work
with awesome students who are exploring STEM as their future. So
it's been really cool to to work in a different space and see how
different institutions work differently.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:01]:
You both have incredible backgrounds in supporting students in
student affairs and connected as women as well. How did you meet
each other?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:07:09]:
Through wisa. Actually we met through wisa, being on the leadership
team. I was the professional, one of the professional development
co chairs for about four years and so I can't remember which year
they went when you came in as our TOMS co chair for communications
and that is how we met within the leadership team and working
together as just part of the larger group internally on projects
and things like that as well.
Dae'lyn Do [00:07:34]:
Remember the first year I joined either, but it was nice to be
joining through comms because I got to use some of that media
studies background that I had developed in undergrad, but in a. In
the setting of higher ed. So that was fun, but we got to connect
through that. And then of course at the conferences and things, the
connections, building connections that way too.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:53]:
How did you decide that it was the moment to try to be become the
chairs together?
Dae'lyn Do [00:07:57]:
Well, I think for me, I always say this about wisa and one of the
reasons that I love it is because of just the space of empowerment
that it is for women and to like lean on each other and uplift each
other. Because I never once said, like, I want to be on wisa, like
the leadership team or I want to be the Casey co chair. It was
other women who saw that in me. And so even as far back, the first
time I got involved with WISA was actually with the regional WISA
because the Region 4 East does, I think it's a biannual drive in
conference. And so that was the year the COVID was happening. So
everything had to switch to virtual. And I was just volunteering as
like a little subcommittee on that, planning the drive in
conference. And then someone was like, oh, you should join the
regional board and then you should join the big board and then you
should also apply to be the Casey co chair.
Dae'lyn Do [00:08:47]:
And so I love that though, because it was never something that I
was like, this is my goal or like, I want to do this. But it was
other people saying, you would be great for this, like you should
apply. Think about it. And so I really love that that has been such
a uplifting space. Especially I, you know, I have been involved
with WISA very early on in my career. And so as someone who has
been a new professional in this space and also having that
empowerment has meant a lot to me and I think definitely kind of
helped catapult my professional growth in many ways.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:09:18]:
Yeah, I mean, for me, I just love being on the team. You know, like
I said, I did professional development four years within the
leadership team. And so I don't know what. Something just kind of
struck me of, like, just throw your name in the HA and just see
what happens. And then just kind of finding out that Daylyn was
also interested in it. It was just kind of an easy connection for
me to be able to work with her because I just had seen the amazing
work that she was doing through her role in the communication side.
And so I thought that we'd make a great team once we realized that
we were both interested in it. So kind of worked out.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:48]:
This season we're focusing on the value of student affairs as our
theme. And WISA has always been a strong contributor to the
profession and the professional development space. Especially. Can
you talk a little bit about what your focus is right now as a K and
how that's supporting this idea of the value of student affairs
right now?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:10:05]:
Yeah, so Daylynn and I created and you know, we'll probably
acknowledge our past co chairs because they kind of started this
trend of these kind of acronyms and things. And so we were like,
well, what, what's going to be our focus? And we came up with glow
like wisa and GLOW is for growth, legacy, openness and well being.
And so I think those were things that we felt like are areas not
only just for women, but just all of student affairs are going
through trying to grow as a professional, trying to also, you know,
figure out how do you leave your legacy while also honoring those
who come before you in the roles that you've been in. Being our
authentic selves and sharing our stories and the things that impact
us both personally and professionally. And then the big thing, well
being. How do we balance student affairs, a busy, busy area or
division on every campus, and so how do we balance that as staff
when we're trying to also take care of our students?
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]:
So like we said, is a wonderful way of framing that. And I
appreciate hearing the focus on caring for yourself while making
sure that we're embracing the profession and what we need to do
right now. What are WISA members talking about in terms of this
question of the value of student affairs on campus? Because we've
come in a different direction given that Covid was not that far
away, but it's also now a generation of college students away. And
we went from being seen as kind of the saviors of the campus for a
moment in time back to I think the question and the value of the
profession has swung pendulum wise the other direction again a
little bit. Not for everybody, but definitely it's there.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:11:35]:
You know, in terms of the value of student affairs right now, it's
so much. And I think one of the things is being just looking at the
whole student because we see them outside of the classroom. And I
often hear people say they're in the classroom maybe 20% of the
time, but other 80% they're either in organizations they're needing
to go to like health and counseling, they're needing their
residence, life, all of the things. And so we are Looking at the
whole student and trying to look at how do we take a holistic
approach to making sure that they stay focused and ultimately that
they graduate. And so I think it's this concept of just that
holistic student development. I think that's a part of the value of
student affairs because we kind of touch them in every area. And
depending on what campus you're on, you know, like my campus
enrollment management also falls within student affairs. So then
you add that piece to it and trying to think about enrollment and
retention and those kind of things.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:12:32]:
I just think it's the value of it. It's just that we're touching
the whole student in all aspects of their life while they're on
campus.
Dae'lyn Do [00:12:40]:
Yeah, when I think about the value of student affairs, truly, I
think we as the folks who are doing the work understand the value.
Like we know the impact that we're having. And oftentimes we get to
see it pretty firsthand when we are connecting with students and
seeing the impact that we're having. Not always, but a lot of times
we do. And so I think it's really about how are we communicating
that or showcasing to other people like that don't aren't in the
work day in and day out and don't fully know the work that we do. I
mean, of course our. I feel like it's an ongoing joke when we talk
to our families about the work that we do. Mine still thinks I'm a
professor, so I'm like, well, maybe someday, but not quite yet.
Dae'lyn Do [00:13:21]:
And so I think being able to communicate and really put into words
what the value is. And I also think helping students understand
that value and name that themselves too, because I think they do
know the value. But they don't know the difference of course
between the student affairs side and the non student affairs side.
Cause they're just here, they're just at college doing their thing
and they just see it as one thing. And so I think helping students
share their story and talk about the impact and the people that
have impacted them is really important part of it. And I think for
women too, a big thing that we're talking about in like the WISA
space regularly is that well being piece and how are institutions
valuing us in what they say versus like what they do. And so we of
course are putting so much of ourselves into this work and both
with our time, I mean many, many people working many late nights
and weekends and being away from family and really putting time and
effort into the work. But then also the like heart of the work and
like the emotional toll that it takes on usually women specifically
in the field, because we're the ones who have the, quote, unquote,
caregiving energy.
Dae'lyn Do [00:14:35]:
And so the space, the nurturer, yes, the nurturers, they come to
us, they see that. And of course I want to do that work and have
that impact, but it can't just be all the time. Like, I can't do
that all the time and then also go home and be that person for my
family as well. And so I think it's kind of two parts. One, telling
our stories, two, and showing up in spaces where, especially at
tables where they're talking about the impact of the future of
higher education, generally speaking. But I also think financially,
I think that's been kind of a big question mark for even at the
University of Michigan, it's a large flagship institution. Like,
financially, things have shifted a little bit recently. And so I
think just thinking about the ways that we're supporting our staff
and telling our stories, but also putting value into the work that
we're doing each day.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:26]:
Anything to add there, Jessica?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:15:27]:
I echo everything that Daylenna said, especially the part about
telling our stories. I think that part is something that we can do
better in student affairs. But I. It gets hard and challenging
sometimes because we are so in the work and so it's hard to
sometimes come up for air to like literally put it into words or
even pictures, whatever that may look like in reports, and
different things to share not only just within our divisions, but
across our institutions, but because we're so in it, sometimes it's
hard to remember, like, hey, we need to share what we're doing so
that people really understand the impact that we're having.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]:
I think this leads us nicely into our three theme based questions
for the season. And I'm actually gonna go in in a different order
because I think we're. We're going to start with number three. Our
first. Well, third question of the theme season is what do you
think that student affairs needs to do to be better understood and
better seen in today's educational environment?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:16:21]:
Well, I think what we were just talking about with telling our
stories, the data is there, we're doing it. Whether it's through
qualitative or quantitative ways or methods, the data is there.
It's just us putting it together, putting it out there and telling
our stories. But I also think it is making sure that we advocate
for, like us being educators. A lot of times when, you know, if
you're in a room and people may Say all the educators, raise your
hand. And sometimes we're kind of like, I mean, yes, that's us, but
we're not the faculty. But we are still educating students in other
ways. And so just reminding ourselves that we are educators as
well, even though we're doing it from maybe the staff side of
things versus faculty, but we are still educators, whether that be
through leadership development or different things like that.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:17:06]:
And that also comes with collaboration. I think we can collaborate
with other divisions. So, you know, that bridge between student
affairs and academic affairs, if we're collaborating more versus
sometimes being in silos, I think that that could help us be better
as well.
Dae'lyn Do [00:17:21]:
Yeah, I think again, it's hard because we know the work that we do
and the impact that we're having. And sometimes it feels like
others maybe aren't thinking about us or, I don't know, thinking
about that in the day to day because again, they're not on the
ground doing the work. And so I think, of course, showing up in
those spaces and advocating for our ourselves. But I also think,
how do we get other folks to look at us too? I guess because it's
like, well, what can we do? Well, I think we're doing the work and
like we're doing what we need to be doing to have the impact. It's
just figuring out how we showcase that and really get people to
listen and hear the impact on a greater scale. Because, yeah, I
think, as we all know, higher education is kind of in a shift
moment right now. And I don't want us to be the people who fall
through the cracks as decisions have to be made. But I.
Dae'lyn Do [00:18:15]:
We're already seeing that happen both financially across the
country and different institutions. And I know many colleagues
who've lost their jobs recently and it did matter that they told
their story, but like, they did tell it and it still like, wasn't
enough. And so I guess it's kind of hard to think about what can we
do? We're already doing so much, so how can we get people to
listen?
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:36]:
I guess going to our first question for our season. When you think
about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and
why?
Dae'lyn Do [00:18:43]:
For me, I mean, it's very personal. I think about how dramatically
my life changed as a result of higher education. And of course it
was because of what I was learning inside of the classroom, but it
also was because of what I was learning outside of the classroom
and the connections that I was making and the people who were
empowering me and helping me process my own imposter. Syndrome and
just the different things that you don't always talk about with a
faculty member or in an academic setting. And yeah, I just think
about that all the time. And like, of course that's why I do the
work that I do. So it's easy for me to say, oh, I want to continue
to give back in this way, but like, it's so true. I mean, when I
have students who come to my office and want to talk through the
challenges that they're having, that means so much to me.
Dae'lyn Do [00:19:31]:
And being able to really help them just navigate some of those
things that they aren't sure of or don't know who to ask,
especially for. For my fellow first gen students out there, you
don't always even know what you need. And so being someone who
knows, hey, maybe this is maybe what's going on, like, have you
thought about it this way? And then just seeing that moment click
for them and being able to just reach their dreams, I mean, there's
so many things that can impact your ability to succeed and the
barriers that you have to overcome. And being someone who can
connect students to resources to help them do that so that at the
end of the day they can go, go be the person that they wanted to be
and reach their goals and dreams. That is everything to me. Again,
because it's both, because it's personal, because I've been there,
I've done that, but also because I want my students do that too,
and I care about them and want them to reach their goals and dreams
as well.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:20:20]:
Love that. Similar for me, when I think about the value of student
affairs, I think about impact. We make a huge impact on students,
lives on the campus, on other areas across campus, especially, you
know, just like I said earlier, depends on how your division may be
structured, but we are touching students in a very holistic way in
every aspect of their lives while they're here. And I just think
about the impact that we're having. Like, even when it's hard and
it's tough and we're tired and we just want to rest, what keeps me
motivated and keeps me going is knowing the impact that we're
making on students. And when I have students from years ago and I
see them, whether that's in person or I'm just following them on
social media and seeing all the great things that they're doing.
And every now and then you have that one or two. That's just like,
I remember when you taught me this or, or you said this to me and
that helped me like Those.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:11]:
Those little moments are like, make it worth it, all of the late
nights and different things like that. So I definitely think impact
when I think about the value of student affairs.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:21]:
Our third slash second question for this theme is, can you please
share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student
affairs come to life? And in your references there, Jessica, I
think you've got some of those stories right at the forefront.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:34]:
So I think, well, this is probably a long time ago, probably in my
early few years, you being a new professional, but working with
student organizations and advising them. And I had a student where
I was really kind of challenging them. So I came in and I kind of
inherited some students in an organization, so they were already
selected. And I kind of came in and, you know, you kind of, as a
new professional, like, I don't know, like, you know, I don't want
to rock the boat too much, but I. I thought, you know, some things
needed to be changed. And so I did have one student who came back
after he had graduated, and he was just talking about things in his
career, and I was asking how things were going, and he was like,
yeah, and it was just a small thing. And he was just like you. I
had to make sure that all my emails were professional and different
things that I was sending out.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:22:17]:
And he said, and you made me do that. You made me do that when I
was in the organization to make sure that my emails are written
professionally or you would send it back to me and say, start over.
And that helped me make sure that I'm being professional in my
career right now. And so even just the small things, I'll never
forget that moment. I was like, oh, you really were paying
attention. I thought I was just flipping at your time. And so I've
had a lot of moments like that. And I think of another, more recent
one where I had a student who was just on the fence about running
for our Student Government association president and really didn't
think that she had what it took to do it, but she had served in
another leadership role on campus, but I guess she didn't think
that it was to the same level and kind of saying, like, you know,
do you really think that I can do this? And I said, I think you can
do it.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:03]:
And I've just seen what you've done, you know, in your current
role. And she ran, she won. And phenomenal. Just like everybody,
the university president, everybody was complimenting how
professional she is all the time and all those things. She just did
an amazing job. And I Always just made a point, whether she was
giving a speech or something and say, like, you're doing a great
job. So I actually saw her the other week. She came to campus.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:29]:
She's graduated now, but for an event that we had one of our
welcome activities and walked up and hugged me and just said,
everything is going really well. But I think think just that little
bit of a nudge to like, help them see their potential really
matters in the moment.
Dae'lyn Do [00:23:41]:
I definitely echo the sentiment of saying things that you don't
realize are actually having an impact or like, even thinking like,
oh, this is a good moment. Oh, that was a good nugget of knowledge
that I shared. No, I never think that. But then they come back to
me months later and they're like, you said this one time. And I was
like, oh, I'm so glad that you remember that I said that. I don't
even remember saying that. So that definitely happens all the time.
Which only makes me a little more.
Dae'lyn Do [00:24:06]:
Okay, I need to really know what I'm talking about here. They're
gonna take it all. So I can't think of a good example of that, but
definitely echo that. But one thing I do think about often is so
each year that I have been a full time professional in higher
education, I have facilitated like a welcome week for our incoming
students. And so one of the sessions that I was really passionate
about including in the welcome week programming, the first time I
did it was an imposter syndrome session. And so just naming what it
is, helping students explore if they're potentially feeling it. And
I remember the first year that I did it or that I would had
proposed that it be a topic, one of my colleagues was like, well, I
don't know, like, do you think that this is too heavy of a topic to
talk about? Like their first week, you know, they're just getting
to campus and like, they need to be getting excited and feeling,
you know, you know, we don't want to like, make them sad by talking
about imposter syndrome on day one. And I was like, I understand
what you're saying, but I actually think the opposite.
Dae'lyn Do [00:25:06]:
Because the truth is, is that many of these students are feeling
that imposter syndrome. And so by not naming it early on, they're
just going to be feeling it whether we talk about it or not, but
then have those feelings in isolation and feel lonelier about it
and not know how to talk about it. And so I really, like, pushed
back and was like, no, I think we need to include it in welcome
week. I Know it's heavier, but like it's important. And that year
and every year since I think this is my fifth or sixth year
presenting the session, every single year, I have students who just
talk about how impactful that session session is and they write
little notes to say like, thank you. This had such a huge impact on
me. You really normalized this for me. Like, I have students come
scheduling one on ones like the next week because they're like,
just want to talk about it more and unpack it more on their own
personal journey.
Dae'lyn Do [00:25:56]:
And in that I'm very authentic about my own journey. And so I think
that helps too to normalize it. But I just think about that every
year because I remember that I felt hesitant because someone
questioned it, but I said no, I think this is important. And really
sticking through to what I thought impact that I knew that it would
make and then knowing that that has been true is really special to
see that and see the impact play out that way.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:20]:
I read something not too long ago that was to the effect of
imposter syndrome is not an individual's challenge to overcome.
It's really the individual encountering a system that was never
made with them in mind. Which I really appreciate that reframe.
Dae'lyn Do [00:26:34]:
That is definitely something I talk about in that space because
it's true. I mean especially. And I think again, circling back to
the value of this work and why we do this work. And it's because,
yeah, these systems were not made for me or many of the people who
do continue to do this work. And so naming that so that it's not
something that a student or even as student affairs professional, I
can't say I don't still feel imposter syndrome sometimes. And so I
think recognizing that it's not like I'm not the problem, like it
was never about me being the issue. It's the system that was built
and how do we help our students understand so that they don't feel
like they have to change something about themselves.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:27:16]:
And I'd also say on even the staff side of things, like, I'm a huge
proponent of professional development, staff development, which is
why I'm so involved. I've been so involved in NASPA and other
associations, but I think about this past summer served as a
faculty for New Professionals Institute. And just being in that
space with all those new professionals, it just reenergized me. And
I heard a lot of them saying they're leaving. I re energized after
participating in the institute. But I even think about we had One
on one sessions. I mean, they could sign up to meet with, you know,
whatever faculty they wanted to meet with. And I had a couple of
participants say to me or even write me notes after the fact about,
you know, just even thinking about the identity of it, of seeing me
as a black woman in a director's seat.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:03]:
And that's where they want to be. And they wanted to make sure,
like I wanted to make sure that I met with you. And there was one
other black female, a faculty member, and that was important to
them to see. And it helped them be energized and ready to go back
and continue to do the work. Because burnout was a big topic for
them. And so just seeing that impact as well from the staff side of
things made me be like, okay, again, I'm tired. But people, the
impact is there. And so to keep pushing and doing the work.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:32]:
Let's go back to that dissertation topic. Jessica, as we're talking
about burning, what can you tell us about new professionals and
their choice to enter and then ultimately exit the field early in
their careers?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:43]:
So you know that I. So I did a survey and everyone has similar
stories to me and Daelyn as far as entering the field. What I found
when it comes to the turnover was the top things were burnout.
Compensation was the other big thing. I'm feeling like a lot of
times entry level professionals are the boots on the ground, like
doing the late nights and the different things like that and
feeling as though they're not getting paid adequately for that. And
we all know student affairs work is hard work. I know Daelyn
mentioned that about the heart earlier. And so oftentimes we aren't
doing it for the paycheck.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:29:18]:
We are doing it because we really love what we do. And so that was
definitely the top two things was burnout due to the workload,
often working more than 40 hours a week and compensation.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:31]:
I have a former colleague who was incredible in their job and then
ended up moving on to Amazon where they ended up, I believe, more
than xing their salary for a similar type of level of position. So
that's always interesting to see what is the impact of what we can
do within the boundaries of our jobs versus what can we do if we
move in industry? I can see pros and cons to, you know, working in
an education setting versus a corporate setting setting. But as
much as we love our jobs in student affairs, we still also need to
be able to pay our bills.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:04]:
Right? And I'll also add that I did also find a Couple of people
that indicated when they moved from student affairs to another area
on campus, they were paid a little bit more and they could also go
home at 5 with some of the feedback there as well.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]:
Anything else that listeners should know, especially listeners that
are in supervisory roles in terms of supporting new professionals
or kind of early career professionals so that they can persist at
in the profession if that's what they want to do.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:32]:
I would encourage supervisors to check in one because sometimes we
think everything is okay because people are just moving and going,
but sometimes if we just ask the question, how are you doing? We'll
learn a lot that may not be said otherwise. So I think checking in,
I think in spaces where we may not be able to compensate
financially, find other ways to be creative for that compensation,
whether that be professional development, paying for those things
if we have the budget to do so, giving some time off here, take a
day here and there, those types of things. Getting a gift card.
Sometimes I try to take my staff to lunch every now and then. I
know it's small but hey, let me take you to lunch or I have a
little all about me thing that we have. And so I'm able to kind of
pick out snacks and different things. They like to kind of say,
hey, here's a little thank you for the work that you're doing. So I
think being creative in ways to compensate and support our staff,
but definitely to check in because sometimes they may not say it if
we don't ask.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]:
And Dalen, in the inverse, you are probably in your last year of
being called early coach career. So you're in your fourth to fifth
year at the moment as a full time professional. What behaviors have
you seen from supervisors or colleagues that has helped you persist
in the field, knowing that burnout has been high amongst early
career professionals?
Dae'lyn Do [00:31:45]:
Yeah, I think I've been lucky in that sense of just having really
supportive supervisors who sought the idea of flex time or like if
you're working late on a Tuesday, I don't want to see you on
Wednesday morning. Being able to find balance, I guess where
recognizing that sometimes it's not written into the contract, but
still being able to find ways to make that space for yourself and
to not just keep yourself running and especially if it doesn't make
sense. Obviously I want to be here and be present to support the
students, but do I have to be here at 8am every single morning to
do that? No, probably not. And I even work in the same building
where they're sleeping, but they're just upstairs. But they're
still asleep. So if they don't need me there, they don't need me
there. But because I have that flexibility, I can be there when
they do need me. And like, it's in the times and spaces when they
need me.
Dae'lyn Do [00:32:37]:
So I've been lucky in that way. And just having supportive mentors
who and again, check in on my own professional development, making
sure I'm feeling like I'm continuing to challenge myself and grow
and making spaces where I feel both celebrated, but also gaining
opportunities to take on new things. Like, if there's something I'm
like, oh, I don't really have experience in this and I want to gain
it. Creating spaces for me in those settings I think is really
important because they know that in order to make more money, we
have to move up. And so recognizing that, okay, you might not be
working under me forever, and that's okay. I want to support you on
that journey too, because I think sometimes it's, you know, when
you work with good people, of course you don't want them to leave.
But I think I've had good supervisors who recognize that, like,
well, if it's better for you, what's best for you is to leave, then
that's okay. Let's help you get where you want to go.
Dae'lyn Do [00:33:30]:
And so I think trying not to be hold on to those people if what's
best for them is for them to grow and spread their wings somewhere
else. So I feel like I have been supported in that way. And then
another thing I just was thinking about was, and I don't know what
question this answers or who is the person who should answer it,
but I do think I've seen, as I've continued to see people like
leaving our field, especially younger professionals, we are
lowering the expectations for our jobs and like the job postings.
And so I feel like I've seen a lot more people entering student
affairs spaces without the student affairs background. And it's not
that it's always a bad thing. I mean, of course outside perspective
is often helpful, and it's not that those people aren't also great.
But I do think that when we talk about the value of student
affairs, we aren't seeing that in those spaces all of the time.
Because yes, I got a degree in this work.
Dae'lyn Do [00:34:25]:
I spent two years learning how to work with students, learning the
theory behind it, learning all of the things, things. And then I'm
not being valued for that education that I'm like bringing because
you might hire someone over me who doesn't have that education or
experience. And so I think just thinking about that, I guess I
don't know. Again, I don't know what the solution is because I also
understand that sometimes you don't even have options when you're
hiring. But it's just thinking about that and what value. When we
talk about the value, recognizing the value in our own education
and what we went to school for and just like naming that in those
spaces.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:01]:
That'S a great can of worms question that I don't want us to
necessarily dig all the way into, but I think it has been on the
table for a little while, which is do you need a Master of
Education degree focused in college student Services administration
or higher Education administration in order to be successful in
student affairs roles? I think personally the answer for some roles
is yes, and for some roles maybe not. Maybe a completely different
skill set as needed, such as communications or sociology or
business backgrounds. So it's an interesting question that I think
our field is going to have to face in the next couple of years for
sure. I want to circle back to WISA as our time wraps up together.
If I'm a listener and a NASA member and WISA is intriguing to me,
but maybe I've never entered the space before, how can I enter it
and what can I expect once I'm in it?
Dae'lyn Do [00:35:47]:
Yes, well if you're not already subscribed to our monthly
newsletter, you should definitely do that. That is where we promo
all of our upcoming events and ways to get engaged. We also have
social media page, both LinkedIn. We actually have a private
LinkedIn group which is where you can join join and I think there's
like over 20,000 people in the group. So it's a really popping
group. But you can join it and then you can share. So that one's
really nice to be able to be like I have a job posting and like
people can just share their research and all the things that there
are going on. And then we have a public group that is where we can
share specific WISA content so events and different things.
Dae'lyn Do [00:36:27]:
And so both of Those exist on LinkedIn. We also have an Instagram
and a Facebook so that's really the best way to figure out what's
going on with with us. The newsletter and social media are
certainly the go tos, but when you do enter the space we have lots
of programming happening all the time. We have a couple of
different signature initiatives happening this fall. We also have a
blog so you can write for our WISA blog and share any kind of
research that you're working on, but also just anything you feel
like you want to write about that applies to women in our field and
sharing that in our space. We are open for that. I think those are
some key things that you could be a part of, but definitely all of
the things you can find out about us on social media or
newsletter.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:10]:
Jessica Anything to add?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:37:11]:
For now on Instagram it's NASPA Women with an X. So if you're
looking us up and I'll also say we also have opportunities as well.
So while our leadership team is full, we have opportunities to
volunteer as committee members under some of our co chairs. So if
you're interested, reach out to either one of us as well so we can
get you plugged in to be a part of some of those smaller
subcommittee.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASA world.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:39]:
Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a
ton of things happening in NASPA. I'm excited today to be able to
announce the 2026 Pillars of the Profession. The Pillars of the
Profession every year are selected from the NASPA foundation, and
it is one the of of the Foundation's highest honors. The award
comes from you, our members and supporters as a way to recognize
your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to
the field and our organization. This year, the NASPA foundation has
selected two 2026 John L. Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the
Profession Award winners, Henry G. And Betty Simmons.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:26]:
This award is the NASPA Foundation's highest honor, celebrating
previous Pillar of the Profession winners who have continued to
contribute to the field. The foundation has also identified the
following individuals as Pillars of the Profession for this year
Tierney Bates, Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at the
University of South Carolina Upstate Roland Bullard Jr. Vice
president for Student Success at Stillman College Charlotte
Davidson, Director of the Native American House, University of
Illinois at urbana champaign Rich DiCapua, Senior Associate Dean of
Students and Deputy Chief Student Life Officer at Tufts University
Cassie Gerhardt, Senior Associate Vice President for Student
affairs at University of North Dakota Gianluca Giovannucci,
President of iuka, the European University College Association
Dennis Gregory, Associate professor of Higher Education at Old
Dominion University University Blanche Hughes, Vice President of
Student Affairs, Colorado State University, Fort Collins Paul
McLaughlin II, Vice President and Dean of the College at Colgate
University Brian Mitra, Vice President of Student affairs and
Enrollment Management at CUNY Queensborough Community College
Sophia Pertuss, founder and Principal Consultant at Mainstream
Insight LLC Scott Pesca, Esther, Assistant Provost for Academic and
Student Success at Waubonsie Community College Calvin Phillips,
Vice President for Student affairs at the University of Minnesota,
Twin Cities Mark Shook, Associate Vice President and Dean of
Students and Deputy Title IX Coordinator at the University of South
Carolina David Surratt, Vice President for Student affairs and Dean
of Students at the University of Oklahoma Michelle Topp, Vice
Provost for Student affairs at Portland State University University
Erin Kahunwaika Wright, Interim Associate Vice Provost for Student
Success and Dean of Students at the University of Hawaii at Manoa
and Toya Younger, Senior Vice President for Student affairs at Iowa
State University this new class of pillars will be honored at the
2026 NASPA Annual Conference. If you would like to celebrate one or
multiple of these pillars of the profession with a donation to the
NASPA foundation foundation in honor of them, to the NASPA
foundation website and donate online, your donations will go
towards celebrating not only these individuals, but supporting the
efforts of the foundation to support members, research and more,
and support the association more broadly. The early registration
for the NASPA Strategies Conference is coming up on October 28,
2020. The NASPA strategies conference is happening January 15th to
17th, 2026 in Chicago, Illinois. The strategies conferences provide
student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to
effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention,
mental health, sexual violence prevention and response, peer
education and well being through a variety of comprehensive and
integrative approaches. These conferences allow for individuals to
gather together and to unite champions of health and well being in
one space to learn, network and advance comprehensive, integrative
approaches to campus challenges.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:46]:
If these conferences sound like ones that you would like to attend,
they are a powerful they are powerful conferences and definitely
ones that you will learn from. I highly encourage you to check them
out today by going to the NASPA website. To get there, just go to
NASPA and go under events and online learning to learn more.
Another professional development opportunity is the Next up
Elevation for Millennial Women Leaders presented by the Women's
Leadership Institute. This is happening December 10th through
December 12th in Decatur, Georgia. You know Middle managers are
often at the heart of change tasked with translating senior
executive strategies into actionable plans. If you are a middle
manager who identifies as a Millennial or as Millennial adjacent,
this is a amazing opportunity to be able to meet other individuals
like yourself that are changing campuses one day at a time. This
conference has carefully curated a lineup of panels, speakers and
breakout sessions to explore topics such as Real Talk for Power,
Middle Career Acceleration, Strategy Strategies, Intentional Peer
Based Networking, Holistic Leadership Development, Bridging
Generations and Building legacies.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:06]:
As mentioned, this is in Decatur, Georgia at Agnes Scott College in
December of 2026. You can find out more on the ACUI website, go to
acui.org and click on Events to find out more. Every week we're
going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within
the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up
to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able
to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as
strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place
within the association, whether it be getting involved with the
knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the
divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's
important to be able to identify for your yourself, where do you
fit, where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we
will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for
you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an
opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge
community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you
in other ways that allow for you to be able to, to think beyond
what's available right now, to offer other things to the
association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association
and to all of the members within the association.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:37]:
Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the
association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more
about what is happening in naspa.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:49]:
Chris, we always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going
on in and around naspa. And we have now reached our light where
I've got seven questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds.
We've got Dalen going and then Jessica going. So we're gonna dive
in right with question one, if you're ready.
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:06]:
We're ready.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:07]:
All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker,
what would your entrance music be?
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:12]:
I'm gonna be bad at this. I would probably say something by chance.
The rapper.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:16]:
Love that. I would probably say anything. Beyonce. But for today,
I'm gonna say run the world.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]:
Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be
when you grew up?
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:25]:
Journalist.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:26]:
I wanted to be a teacher.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:28]:
Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:30]:
Dr. Kelly Jo Larson.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:32]:
Dr. Sharon Whitaker Davis.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:34]:
Number four, your essential student affairs read.
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:37]:
I have recently been reading a book about first generation
professionals in student affairs in higher education, so I would
recommend that one.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:45]:
Well, I haven't read it yet. But I just bought it at the NASA
conference this year. About mid level managers. I can't remember
the exact book, but it's about mid level managers.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:54]:
Number five the best TV show you've been binging lately.
Dae'lyn Do [00:45:57]:
Well, it's fall so I'm back on Gilmore Girl.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]:
Binging same.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:01]:
My husband and I binge watched recently this show called the
Hunting Party. It's a new show but it was very, very enticing. So
we will be watching it when the next season comes.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]:
Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Dae'lyn Do [00:46:15]:
Probably one of my Taylor Swift podcasts that talk about the Easter
eggs and things, especially with the upcoming album.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:23]:
So I'm not a big podcast person, but I'll say they do have a
podcast, but I see the clips on Instagram so it's Devale and Kade
Ellis just talking about relationship type thing.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:34]:
And finally, number seven any shout outs you'd like to give,
personal or professional?
Dae'lyn Do [00:46:38]:
I just give a shout out to everybody who's helped me along my
journey and thank you for supporting me. All my supervisors that
I've had along the journey and my students too. I think we didn't
talk about that as much today, but I definitely think that the
students have impacted me and my own growth as much as I've
probably impacted them, hopefully.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:58]:
I'd like to shout out my WISA family, best co chair in the world,
Daelyn, our former co chairs in the past few years. I'd also like
to shout out my husband who's also in student affairs. So that's
always a fun story. We both are in student affairs. Shout out all
of my like Damon said, my past supervisors, my current supervisor,
my Alabama A&M family, just everyone in my family who's been a
part of my journey.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:20]:
It's been such a joy to learn more about WiSA's work today and get
to know your perspective perspectives on the value of student
affairs. I'm sure there are other NASPA listeners who would like to
connect with you both if they would like to find you. How can they
do that?
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:33]:
Yeah, so my LinkedIn is just Jessica Nathan Brown. Definitely
connect with me and would love to chat and get to know you.
Dae'lyn Do [00:47:41]:
I agree. My LinkedIn is also just Dailyn Doe so you should be able
to find me and connect and also reaching out via the link WISA
platforms as well. We monitor those so if that's easier.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:54]:
Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.
Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:57]:
Thank you.
Dae'lyn Do [00:47:57]:
Thank you for having us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:03]:
This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you
by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners.
We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time
with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email
us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr.
Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and
guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell
a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:33]:
It really does help other student affairs professionals find the
show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting
community. This episode this episode was produced and hosted by Dr.
Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr.
Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for
your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.