Oct 30, 2025
If you work in higher education or care about college access and affordability, "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" continues to be a must-listen. In this season's fifth episode, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Melanie Storey, President and CEO of the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (NASFAA), to demystify the changing landscape of student financial aid and its deep ties to student affairs.
The episode dives headfirst into the rapid-fire changes shaping higher education funding today. Melanie, bringing decades of experience from policy implementation at the U.S. Department of Education and leadership roles throughout Washington, D.C., articulates how student financial aid has evolved. From its beginnings with the Higher Education Act and the emergence of need-based aid, she describes the ongoing tension between supporting students with the greatest financial need and responding to broader shifts in public opinion about the value of higher education.
A major theme in the conversation is the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act" (OB3), which is making waves with its broad changes to loan programs, repayment plans, and institutional accountability. Melanie clarifies complex topics like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), repayment clarity, and the introduction of earnings measures for universities. She urges student affairs professionals to recognize the uncertainty this creates for students—not just in their financial planning but in their emotional well-being and sense of security while pursuing degrees.
For families embarking on their college journey, Melanie recommends making the most of resources like StudentAid.gov and financial aid estimators, emphasizing that fit—academic, social, and financial—matters more than chasing prestigious institutions. She also unpacks new programs like Workforce Pell, which expands grant eligibility to short-term vocational programs, opening new avenues for career-focused students.
Throughout, Melanie champions student affairs professionals as the human heart of higher education. Whether helping students navigate anxiety about finances or bridging connections with financial aid offices, she sees these campus leaders as vital advocates and problem-solvers.
If you’re looking for practical insights, clarity on policy changes, and a dose of optimism in “interesting” times, this episode will deepen your understanding. Tune in to hear about the evolving relationship between student affairs and financial aid—and be reminded why student affairs matters more than ever in helping students thrive.
Listen to “Student Affairs Voices from the Field: Melanie Storey” now and join the conversation shaping the future of higher education!
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs.
I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the
Field host Today on Essay Voices, it's our privilege to welcome
Melanie Storey, who is the President and CEO of nasfa, which is the
national association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. She
began her tenure on May 1st of 2025. With decades of experience in
federal higher education policy, financial aid operations and
organizational leadership, Story brings deep expertise and a
steadfast commitment to advancing access and equity in higher
education.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]:
Storey most recently served as Director of Policy Implementation
and oversight at the U.S. of Education's Office of Federal Student
Aid, or FSA, where she led cross functional teams in translating
federal policy into practice. She played a central role in
implementing the FAFSA Simplification act and the Future act, and
contributed to major initiatives like federal student loan debt
relief. She frequently represented FSAA before congressional staff,
administration officials, and higher education leaders. Before
joining the department, Story led policy and strategy work at the
College Board and served as Director of National Initiatives at the
American Council on Education, where she supported national
commissions, analyzed legislative proposals, and led public service
campaigns. Earlier in her career, she was a policy analyst at the
national association of Independent Colleges and Universities, or
naicu, conducting research and collaborating with government
relations staff on federal policy proposals impacting private
institutions. A proud first generation college graduate and
financial aid recipient, Saray earned a Master's degree in Public
affairs from the Lyndon B. Johnson School at the University of
Texas at Austin and holds a bachelor degree in Economics and Public
Policy seat from Smith College.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]:
Melanie welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field.
Melanie Storey [00:02:06]:
Thank you, thank you. Hey Jill, it's great to be with y' all
today.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:08]:
I always love doing crossovers with other higher ed professional
associations because we all occupy the same industry but very
different lanes within the industry, almost like many verticals. So
it's great to talk to a subject matter expertise in in an area that
deeply affects the student affairs profession. But most of us
definitely are not.
Melanie Storey [00:02:25]:
Experts on yeah, no, I really appreciate it and I think more than
ever in the current environment it is so important that we we be
talk about the things that we're facing within our own lanes, but
across our lanes because it is really a pretty transformational
time that we're dealing with right now. I keep saying that I
welcome to live in less interesting times, but I don't think that
that's going to happen anytime soon. So I really welcome the
opportunity to spend some time together, talk about student affairs
and financial aid.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]:
The meme that I keep seeing is, you know, I'm tired of
unprecedented times. I'd rather go back to precedented times. And I
think a lot, you know.
Melanie Storey [00:03:00]:
Whatever the Confucius may, you live in interesting times. I'm
like, no, thank you. I'm have a NASA thumb. Thanks. I'm good.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:06]:
We could use some boring around here. That'd be fine.
Melanie Storey [00:03:07]:
I'll take it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:08]:
But Melanie, you've been with NASA now just for a hair over a year,
I believe, and came to NASA from the U.S. department of Education.
But we like to get to know our guests more specifically by asking,
how did you get to your current seat, if you wouldn't mind sharing
the journey?
Melanie Storey [00:03:22]:
Yeah, so it might feel like a hair over a year, but it's really
only been about five months. I started in late spring at NASA, took
some time off from my time at the department. I took a little
cleanser time before jumping in. So I have always been what I will
say, say is financial aid adjacent. I guess I haven't worked in a
financial aid office in my career, but I started even in undergrad,
really focused on education policy. I was really interested in
policy from the very start. And when I finished my undergrad, I
moved to Washington, as many young, eager people do with, you know,
kind of like a suitcase and a very light checkbook and hope for the
best. I kind of fell into higher education policy.
Melanie Storey [00:04:01]:
You know, I think a lot of policy programs tend to focus on K12,
and that was kind of true for me early on. And then my first job
was with a contractor on the Pell Grant, Right. Fundamental grant
to support low income students. And I kind of, it opened my eyes to
higher education policy and access and affordability. And I'm a
first generation college student. And it was really like, well,
yeah, duh, this is, this is important. Like this really makes
really important change in people's lives. And so it kind of
started there.
Melanie Storey [00:04:30]:
I've been in Washington almost the entirety since then. I've worked
for various associations that represent college and university
presidents, the College Board, and then as you mentioned, the U.S.
department of Education. So I've always been fully committed to
affordability and access and making sure that the doors of higher
education are open to all those that seek it. And so when the NASPA
position opened, it really is a dream job. For me, I mean, it is
leading a group of incredibly dedicated professionals who share the
principles and goals that I have built my entire career around. And
so I'm thrilled to be in the job. It is definitely a challenging
time, but I'm fully committed and proud to be the voice of those
who are committed to the students that they serve.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:10]:
And NASFA for our listeners, if you're new to this particular
acronym, is the national association of Student Financial Aid
Administrators. So a sister cousin organization to us here at
naspa.
Melanie Storey [00:05:22]:
And oftentimes you use naspa, nasfa. You have to be very diction
has to be really good to make sure you're not confusing us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:28]:
There's also nafsa, which is the students abroad.
Melanie Storey [00:05:32]:
You know, we joke about the Alphabet soup. It's real. But yes.
Yeah, NASA, student financial aid administrators.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:37]:
And just because I'm originally from the Seattle metro area, I do
want to clarify. Melanie's in Washington D.C. that's important.
Melanie Storey [00:05:43]:
That is the bubble you've identified that we, when you're here too
long, you just, you make these assumptions. Yes. I have largely
lived in Washington D.C. for most of my career. I did spend a few
years in Austin doing some graduate work. Washington D.C. which
quite frankly Washington State and Seattle sound much better these
days.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:01]:
Melanie, you have seen the arc of student financial aid, student
affordability change drastically over the course of your career.
Can you talk us through a bit of kind of what that rainbow has
looked like from what the mission looked like when you started
versus kind of what the daily work looks like now?
Melanie Storey [00:06:18]:
Yeah, I mean that's a really, it's an interesting question. Right,
like what that ARC looks like just to like sort of level set,
right. Like financial aid and the sort of art and science. And I
like to talk about it a little bit as both sometimes the art and
science of financial aid really came to pass with the Higher
Education Act. So the Higher Education act of course is what really
codified some of the core financial aid programs. Loans, preexisted
basic education grants, but Pell grants, federal student loans, the
kind of things we know about today. So that means it's about 60
years old. So not that old in relation to some of the other things,
but pretty well established.
Melanie Storey [00:06:54]:
And I think what we're kind of facing now is you kind of have the
stor norm kind of things that happen. And I think that's a little
bit of what you see in the arc. I think in the early days you saw
this really kind of visceral commitment to need based aid and the
primacy of need based aid. And just for clarity, need based aid is
directing funds to the students who need the funds in order to
access post secondary education. So the counterbalance to that
would be merit so that, you know, scholarships and aid that is
awarded based on a student's achievement in any number of areas.
But I think in the federal programs you saw a real commitment and
dedication to the focus on need and lower income families and
giving them the support they needed to make sure that their
students had access to higher education. Over the course of my time
I think we've seen a lot of push and pull around this need merit
debate. And you know, they don't have to be mutually exclusive,
although the pie is limited.
Melanie Storey [00:07:52]:
I don't want to make it seem like it is without boundaries, but you
tend to see a movement where loans, federal student loans, are less
targeted toward the lowest income students. They are generally
since the mid-80s, I won't get into legislative language, but since
the mid late 80s that middle income and even middle upper income
families can also access loans with the core sort of grant programs
still really being focused on the lowest income students. But that
sets up a lot of policy challenges and appropriations challenges.
Right? Loans are mandatory, funded, they don't have to be funded
every year. Again getting kind of technical, But Pell grants have
to be funded every year. So you see this kind of tension kind of
building over the course of my career. The other thing that I think
has really been a dramatic shift and we're seeing it play out in
public opinion polling and in other places where the general public
is being asked is around the value of higher education, whether
it's federal or state. Governments are literally investing hundreds
of billions.
Melanie Storey [00:08:50]:
It's not over time, trillions of dollars in higher education. They
want to know what they're buying and that they're getting a value
for that investment. And I think confidence in the value of higher
education has really changed over the course of my career. And so
that has a kind of broader. It's not specific to financial aid, but
it has a real impact because financial aid of course is the
distribution of the funds that are invested in this effort. And so
I think one of the things, and I'm sure we'll get to this at some
point that I and thinking about at NASA is how do we recapture that
narrative? How do we really fully demonstrate the transformative
value of higher education, whether it be for the individual, the
family, the community, but also our nation. It drives innovation,
it drives research and really making sure that, that we can tell
that story and the return on that investment. So that has been sort
of the overall kind of context that I think has really changed in
higher education.
Melanie Storey [00:09:44]:
So you both want to make sure that you're focusing on need based
aid. Although merit has value and we see more of that, but also
that we can demonstrate that what we're investing in is really
advancing individuals, communities in our nation.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:56]:
We're in a situation now where the Department of Education is
really changing the way that financial aid is implemented and
distributed to students at the undergraduate and graduate levels.
We saw the one big beautiful Bill ACT pass just a couple of months
ago. We know a lot of those changes aren't actually going to take
effect until the next academic year or some even beyond that. But
NASA has developed a really great chart resource that talks about a
lot of the changes and where they impact us and our students. But
from a student affairs professional perspective, there's a large
number of us who have been relying on public service loan
forgiveness for our own journeys. So I'm wondering if we can start
there and can you tell us what we know about how the OBBBA is going
to change how we engage with federal financial aid from ourselves
as professionals?
Melanie Storey [00:10:50]:
Yeah. Wow. That's a good question. I call it OB3 because the one
big beautiful Bill act is a tongue twister and a lot of words. So
I'm going to just default to my OB3 if you don't mind.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:00]:
That's great. I'm going to steal that.
Melanie Storey [00:11:02]:
Yeah, it just, it's a lot when you talk about this and you lose a
lot of time speaking that way. So a couple of things about ob.
Let's start with public service loan forgiveness. Public service
loan forgiveness has had a journey of its own, is I think, sort of
a policy that, while deeply well intentioned, has been victim to
overwrought design at times. When we saw that early on when so few
people were able to be eligible or be able to demonstrate that they
were, I think in the previous administration we saw great strides
in being able to kind of bring clarity to it and be able to ensure
that more folks who were dedicating their careers to public service
were able to take advantage of it. And then the current
administration, I think is looking at it a little bit differently,
although, you know, I don't. My crystal ball is often cracked, I
think, in terms of forgiveness programs. And I say that
deliberately because remember in the previous administration there
was a lot of talk around forgiveness broadly that was really around
what they saw was dysfunction in the loan repayment area.
Melanie Storey [00:11:59]:
And so they were there was a desire to try to provide some relief
to borrowers who quite frankly had been victim of a lot of
confusion in the loan repayment space. I think all the politics of
that aside, that's largely settled law at this point. We're not
going to see broad based forgiveness. There's no appetite for that.
And quite frankly, you know, I think it has kind of been before the
courts and the decision has been made. Public service loan
forgiveness, however, is different. It has generally enjoyed
bipartisan support. I do think that there is support for supporting
individuals who may forego bigger salaries or lots of things in
order to commit 10 years of their life to public service.
Melanie Storey [00:12:38]:
So I'm pretty confident that PSLF is on solid ground now. Do I
think that that means it won't be without some changes? The answer
there, I'm afraid to say, is no. And the two things that I would
point out, I'm sure if you're following this, you're aware that
there was a negotiated rulemaking that's a very fancy Washington
D.C. term for regulatory debate and regulatory effort to define
what a qualifying employer would be. This was an unusual negotiated
rulemaking. It tended to lean less from the operational regulatory
side and more into what I would call sort of value driven, that
kind of work. The challenging thing about operationalizing
something like PSLF and just for folks who may not know, when I was
at the US Department of Education, I was on the implementation side
at Federal Student Aid, the operational side. So I tend to think
about policies not just in their goals, but like how do you
actualize it, how do you implement it? And the thing about PSLF is
the way to implement it is really through the tax code, C3S, 501,
C6S, where they do certain things.
Melanie Storey [00:13:37]:
That is the way to do it in a broad scale way. Trying to put a
layer on this of some sort of value structure based on an
administration's goals is really complicated in an implementation
way. So I think what you saw in that regulatory process was a
honing that if you are working for an organization that has been
determined to have violated the law, you may not be eligible for
psof. Well, which has violated the law. Like, I mean not to get
like start to split the hairs, but that just gets really
complicated and I think it's going to take time. So on that arena,
while I understand it is setting and maybe a little panicking, I
encourage folks to take a breath. These things take a long time.
They've gone through the regulatory process, they'll issue a
rule.
Melanie Storey [00:14:19]:
But how it gets operationalized. And whether or not someone would
truly lose their eligibility based on an employer's bad act is
going to be a much more complicated process than just it's not
going to shut the spigot off overnight. The other piece though that
I think is up for debate on PSLF is the idea of unlimited
forgiveness. And I love to my colleagues in higher education, some
of our wounds are self inflicted. And there have been programs who
have encouraged significant borrowing based on the fact that a
student would see all of their loans forgiven after 10 years. That
really wasn't the intention of this program. Significant debt
forgiven at the end. It was to encourage, you know, folks to
consider public service careers.
Melanie Storey [00:14:58]:
So I do think there's potentially an appetite to see some
limitations on the amount of debt to be forgiven. Now, whether or
not that can be done unilaterally without some grandfathering in of
students who are already in pslf. Right. There's other debates to
be had about that, but I do think on the PSLF front that that's
something that is likely to be to reemerge and to be debated. The
rest of the OB3 stuff. And as you said, we have a chart. I don't
know how many pages long it is. It's at least a couple, maybe
three, I don't know.
Melanie Storey [00:15:27]:
There are a lot of provisions in there and importantly big picture
spans programs for short term workforce programs fundamentally
changes the borrowing landscape how much students can borrow,
particularly in the graduate level. And then the repayment plans
which repayment is a source of real pain for borrowers. Too many
plans, very confusing. What's eligible for forgiveness, how long? I
mean it's, it's NASA strongly recommended and supports a more
clarity and streamlining in the repayment program. So important
work there. We might have haggled around the edges in terms of
where we landed but I think it's important that we have different
repayment and then some accountability for institutions. Again,
back to this return on investment. But so for student affairs
professionals, all of this uncertainty and lack of clarity is
really unnerving for students.
Melanie Storey [00:16:17]:
Finance in college, it's a huge investment of time and money and
commitment and no guarantee of outcome. I mean the statistics bear
it out. But you know, the job market is tough, right? There's just
a lot. And so it impacts you all personally. Student loan
forgiveness, repayment, all of that. But also the students on your
campus are increasingly experiencing worry, anxiety every semester.
Is the bill paid? Can I register for my classes? It's very. And not
having certainty.
Melanie Storey [00:16:46]:
Am I going to be able to borrow enough money for graduate school.
Am I going to be eligible for this program that will help me get
through that? That level of uncertainty is really disruptive to the
learning, to the experience, to all parts of it. And I think a lot
of that often comes to student, you know, to student affairs
professionals who are, you know, in place to really engage and
support students in their post secondary life.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:09]:
It's an interesting time as well because we just saw a modification
to the FAFSA within the last couple of. I think it was the last
year really. 24, 25 was the first year.
Melanie Storey [00:17:18]:
Yes.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:18]:
That the FAFSA changed. So we're just seeing kind of fast,
intentional but complicated changes to the student loan grant
landscape in the United States along with college affordability
being part of the conversation, along with a change in
administration, et cetera. So if I'm a family looking at federal
aid for the first time, maybe I'm a first generation family that's
attending college. What is your pro tip for making heads and tails
of the situation that people see in front of them?
Melanie Storey [00:17:47]:
Yeah, so I would say two things. One is if available in your
community, if there is a community based organization or someone in
your high school or your church or wherever your community may
reside that support sort of FAFSA completion and that work, I
encourage you to build those relationships. Now they are the folks
on the front lines that are really along with financial aid
administrators. But you don't tend to really have a relationship
with them until you've chosen your school. But they are the ones
who are going to be super knowledgeable on kind of how the changes
are coming. That might feel like a bridge twofold. So what can you
do in the Meantime? Go to StudentAid.gov StudentAid.gov is the
front door of the U.S. department of Education's kind of home as it
relates to federal student aid.
Melanie Storey [00:18:29]:
Look up or just Google federal Student Aid estimator. We can drop a
link somewhere. But the federal student Aid estimator, it's not a
full fafsa, even though the FAFSA is much faster and easier now.
And I'm going to put a plug in there, but it's not time. But if
you're say a junior, right, A sophomore or junior, you're on the
front end of this. Go to the federal student Aid estimator, ask you
maybe five, six, seven questions. It's pretty easy. You don't need
to bring any paperwork and it'll just give you an estimate of what
is called your student aid index.
Melanie Storey [00:18:55]:
It'll Give you a sense of what your family circumstances might make
you eligible for the outcome of that estimator. That SAI is really
important because every school that your young person might be
considering also is required to have something called a net price
calculator. And I'm getting into the weeds, but follow along with
me here, right? The net price calculators is an estimate of the
types of aid they provide to a family generally like yours, based
on the outputstudentaid.gov site. And so use those net prices. Be
realistic. If I had one like magic wand I could wave, I was like,
please, can we move away from the narrative of elite drinking? Can
we move away from the narrative that there's a single school for
every individual? You know, like there's a single aspirational
school. It really needs to be about fit. It needs to be about
academic fit, social fit, financial fit, and students need to be
academically, socially and financially ready for post secondary
education.
Melanie Storey [00:19:53]:
So starting to hone in on what that social, academic and financial
fit is, one of the things you can do is understand what you might
be eligible for generally and then at schools that might be that
you might be interested in or your student might be interested in,
and then start building your lists, having the conversations,
understanding what the overall cost of colleges, tuition, room and
board, how far away from home, what is the transportation going to
look like, what other options are for housing are there. Right.
There's some costs that you can control and some that you have less
control over. So if I, and I do advise families at times, you know,
who are first generation, first interactions with post secondary
education, is to do the research up front, be open in those
conversations and be open to all of the types of institutions that
might be available to you that really I think there is a lot of
words around aspirational schools and it's great to have an
aspirational school and if it works out, great. But I want to
caution people by being too myopic, that and then not necessarily
making smart financial decisions and maybe not getting the right
return on their investment because of that.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:59]:
I think in student affairs we be the very first to support students
in their journey to find the right university or college for them.
We're big proponents of community college education, of technical
college education, and figuring out if the four year university is
the right move for a person or if it's going to be one of the
privates or if it's going to be a large public. There's different,
there's something for everybody at the higher education level. So
Long as we're supporting students in the journey they want to
find.
Melanie Storey [00:21:24]:
So yeah, that it really is. That's such a big piece. But I didn't
even mention private colleges. But you know, when I talk about
price, people always think private colleges are out of reach, but
they often have more money to give. Right. Like. So that's why I
really want you to. I want people to think broadly about their
lists and do the work to see what might be a fit.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:40]:
So on the other end of this we have some changes to institutional
accountability as it applies to federal financial aid. And I think
this is where student affairs plays a big role in supporting
students through persistence to degree completion and then
ultimately helping them help students set themselves up for success
in the job market. But I think these institutional changes also
maybe turn the mission of higher education for us. And I think
that's a debatable point for some, maybe not for all. Some would
say that higher education is to expand critical thinking skills.
And for those who have kind of the luxury of time and the privilege
of the financial freedom to go to college, it's about learning how
to think about and solve problems. For others it's only about job
preparedness and earnings capacity. And I think that this, this
institutional accountability measure probably pushes us towards the
latter because it has introduced some earnings measures for
universities.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:34]:
Would you mind sharing kind of the CliffsNotes version of what this
is and how it's going to affect our day to day work?
Melanie Storey [00:22:41]:
Yeah. So you know, you talk about sort of the critical thinking and
you know, I'm a liberal art arts graduate, big fan, see the value
but it doesn't, doesn't diminish the importance of. I also needed
to get a job when I graduated. Like I don't always see those things
in opposition. I do see it as a yes and but it does. I think it is
reflected in OB3. And just again back to this value of higher
education. It isn't all about earnings and getting a job, but it
all has to be a little bit about.
Melanie Storey [00:23:07]:
There are very few who have the privilege of just going to enjoy
the experience and free think and I don't know what happens after
that. Like at the end of the day, you know, there is a
responsibility there but so OV3 introduces accountability as you
mentioned, a new accountability framework that will hold
institutions accountable for earnings of their graduates to be
higher than those earnings of a student who only has a high school
diploma. That's the clip Note the devil is always in the details.
Someone who may only have a high school diploma may go into a high
skill trade and have high significant income. As student affairs
professionals, financial aid professionals know this too. Those
first three, four years of earnings are not your strongest earnings
directly out of college. Right. I think we have some concerns right
around the details of the data.
Melanie Storey [00:23:55]:
If we're going to be held accountable. And I, and I. Let me just be
clear, my members in higher education, we should be held
accountable for delivering on the opportunity that we are
marketing. The question is how does one measure it? Where does one
measure it in the arc of one's life? Very few metrics will be
perfect and this is the one that we have now. And so I think what
your question and lead up is kind of answering to though is, you
know, will it change the, the dynamic of our institutions to be
admitting and encouraging students to move into what are more our
higher paying careers or you know, kind of early on whether or not
that is their, you know, sort of where they want to head? And I
think that's a, I think it's an open, it's an open question. I
think it will. We're going to have to look at the first few years
of this data and see what it kind of looks like. You know, right
now we don't, we don't have very good proxies.
Melanie Storey [00:24:45]:
So it's really hard to get a sense of that. There will be again
going back to this negotiative rulemaking, a regulatory process
around the accountability metrics later this year and early in 26.
Those will be important conversations to help us define how this
accountability will be measured and applied. But it is an important
and dramatic shift and it's not new though. Just to be clear, there
are already something called gainful employment and financial value
transparency. VT for those of them know that has been in place
under a regulatory structure for some time. And to be clear, it has
been challenged and removed and restarted. I think we're on like
our fourth round of it.
Melanie Storey [00:25:21]:
The department has already gotten data, they've collected data and
they have data in house that is eagerly awaiting to be reported out
around some of this gainful employment and financial value
transparency. The thing about OB3 is that now it's in statute, now
it's statute is more powerful. It's rooted in statute versus a
regulatory effort. And so, and it differs a little bit from gefbt.
So our hope is that we can get to a single set of accountability
metrics. We don't want to double up the burden on institutions and
make it meaningful for policymakers to assess institutions. But
maybe more Importantly for students and families to get a sense of
the value they might be getting at a particular institution. But it
is higher education bristles at the idea of earnings being our only
outcome.
Melanie Storey [00:26:03]:
And that's appropriate, but it is an important outcome. And so I
think we need to work on a yes and as opposed to just a no.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:09]:
Let's talk about graduate students. There was an elimination of
Grad plus loans, which is going to have some deep impacts on anyone
earning a master's, doctoral or professional degree. Some of the
limits that are put in the Grad plus loan or the grad loans that
are still available won't cover the costs of some of these
educational experiences. Some people might be in the middle of
their experience right now and these changes are going to come in a
year. And I know that they have a year to figure out how to finish
paying for that particular educational experience. Particularly
worried about things like medical school. We see medical school
price tags more than a mortgage in some places. And the only way to
complete them for some students are through these types of
loans.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:49]:
So how are we going to get our graduate students to the finish line
knowing that these are, these are coming.
Melanie Storey [00:26:55]:
Yeah. So this was a big. This was. And fast and significant change,
largely, as you said, focused on graduate students. On the
elimination of Grad Plus. Let me take, let me take your question
about those who are currently engaged in their programs right now.
There are provisions in the law for grandfathering those who are
currently enrolled into the Grad plus program and into the existing
loan limits as long as they stay in the program and they don't
switch programs or schools. So not ideal.
Melanie Storey [00:27:20]:
But there is grandfathering. It isn't just, it's not quite the
cliff effect next year. This is something that is also being
discussed in the negotiated rulemaking about how long this
grandfathering will last. Students may take longer to finish their
programs. I believe the language in the law is something like, like
three years, the end of their program or three years. And so if
someone takes four years, are we really kicking them out? Right. I
guess so. I think we're trying to understand three full time
years.
Melanie Storey [00:27:46]:
Right. Like there's lots of things we can debate around that. But
the grandfathering provisions for those who are currently engaged I
hope will provide a softer off brand for those folks. But for
students who are just looking to embark on their graduate
education, this is a much more daunting kind of reality because the
truth is that Grad plus is, is going away. And let me, let me start
with a little tough talk here around why I think this happened and
why I think Congress acted pretty abruptly here is that there was a
lot of frustration when we talk about return on investment, that
there were at least a few marquee, particularly master's degree
programs that were charging significant six figure tuitions that
realistically were not going to have of payoff that one would
expect from that. Now students make choices. Students make choices
of their programs. They make choices.
Melanie Storey [00:28:36]:
You know, they are, they, they have agency in these decisions.
Right. So I don't, I don't, you know, want to dismiss that, but I
think certain members of Congress and key members of the committee
saw the combination of these high tuitions, limited return on
investment and the combination again back to PSLF and this
expectation of hundreds of thousands of dollars being, being
forgiven. And they were like this was not the intention of these,
this was not. And they saw it as being, they saw it as
institutions, not all institutions, but some institutions being bad
actors in terms of taking advantage of the programs. I say that
just because I want, I think it's important, you know, we can hand
wring and teach Nash like why would they do this? And I sometimes
feel like we lose clarity that we're not always all perfect actors
like and sometimes we have to, but we do have to operate as a
community and sometimes some of members of our community don't
always operate as we might wish. So I say that, you know, I do
think that is at least part of what seeded where we are. But what
do we do now? I can tell you that NASA and our institutions are
working hard to figure out how we might fill the gap.
Melanie Storey [00:29:41]:
Whether it is an institutional funds, state funded loan programs,
private loan programs with Advantage Advanced, you know, kind of
safety nets and benefits as we can, particularly to help lower
income students access capital to pursue graduate degrees. Right.
We don't want to close that much. Like we believe in need based aid
and the opportunity to access higher education for all students who
desire it, regardless of their income. This can extend into
graduate programs as well. And I think, you know, that is what we
are currently focusing on. What can we get in place quickly that is
supportive and student focused in order to help students pursue
post secondary education that's on the grad plus elimination. It's
gotta be just a pure.
Melanie Storey [00:30:23]:
What other vehicles can we find? What other capital vehicles can
you support that are student friendly to do that? On the loan limit
piece we're currently negotiating with the department, the
negotiations are around what constitutes a professional degree
which is eligible for higher loan limits versus a graduate degree.
There's A lot of rain going around. And I think that's going to be
an important conversation to help define what kind of capital is
available. But I'll be honest, like, I think Congress is hoping
that it puts downward pressure on the tuitions that are being
charged on these programs. I don't know if that's a realistic hope
in this world, but I do think they are hoping that institutions get
creative in ways, in terms of how we finance and develop and design
these programs to make them more financially accessible to
students. And so I think, I think we have an opportunity and an
obligation as institutions to try to think creatively around that
as well.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:11]:
Let's talk about Pell. Pell has a new program called Workforce
Pell, which is something that I'm wholly unfamiliar with. So I'll
just be very honest about that. My understanding is that I believe
you have to. It's kind of like work study adjacent ish. For Pell
eligible students. Is that incorrect?
Melanie Storey [00:31:28]:
So Pell grants, generally you have to be enrolled in a program that
is, you know, I think I gotta remember like 15 weeks, right? Or
like, you know, it has a le associated with it, which really made
it. It kind of was initially something that differed, made Pell
different than some of the Department of Labor programs for shorter
kind of certificate, very vocationally focused programs. The
expansion of Pell Grant eligibility to short workforce programs
plus Workforce Pell are, is making students who are enrolled in
these kind of vocationally focused certificate, 6 to 8, 6 to 10
week programs eligible for Pell Grants. And to be clear, like a lot
of our community colleges, a lot of our vocationally focused for
profit institutions offer great vocationally focused programs that
are very short in length, these are great for retraining, and then
someone can go into the workforce with the certificate. They
historically have not been eligible for Pell. So this is quite a
bipartisan effort to expand eligibility to Pell Grant programs to
Pell grant dollars for more of these programs. And so the tricky
part is we want to make sure these are high quality programs,
right? Like much else, when we are expending federal dollars, we
want to be good stewards of those dollars. So part of the
implementation of Workforce Pell is identifying programs and
certifying programs as eligible.
Melanie Storey [00:32:46]:
So institutions will have to go through a process to demonstrate
the value of the program. It needs to have been in place for a
number of years. There's, there's a few things in the law around
that, but so, but it really just an expansion of eligibility of
Pell to these more vocationally Shorter term programs. So again, a
different pathway of opportunity for students to leverage Higher
Education act funds towards career goals.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]:
Thank you for clarifying that. So clearly I had completely
misunderstood its original intention, but this is good stuff.
Melanie Storey [00:33:16]:
I mean, you're not deep. There's no need for you to be deep in the
weeds on that. It really is. It's a Pell Grant. It's just now Pell
Grant for a different set of programs.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:24]:
Is there anything else in OB3 that student affairs professionals
could benefit from knowing that maybe we're not paying close
attention to or maybe it's like a tiny technical detail or
something that. That might have been. So I have my doctor's in
public policy. And so I always think about like, what is the, the
small thing that's one sentence long that actually completely
changes the meaning of a thing? Because we all know those are in
there.
Melanie Storey [00:33:46]:
Yeah, boy, you're not kidding. I mean, you've covered a lot of it.
But I'll tell you, like one technical detail we are watching pretty
closely. And it is almost like a sentence. And this, I'll explain
what it's called. Loan proration. So what this means is, is that
your loan eligibility will be prorated by the number of credits
that you are enrolled. So in order to be eligible for the full loan
amount, you would be enrolled in 9 to 12 credits.
Melanie Storey [00:34:11]:
Right. But as you drop down in credits, your loan eligibility will
diminish in a prorated fashion. So that sounds, I mean, but that
has not been the way the programs have operated. If you're eligible
for a loan, you're eligible for a loan. So proration is kind of a
like, wait, what? Because not many graduate students are.
Particularly for graduate students who we know are already getting
hit on grad plus and other things often are only enrolled in 6
credits, 8, 9 credits. So what will that mean for their loan
eligibility? So that holistically is something we're watching.
That's in the law.
Melanie Storey [00:34:42]:
That's going to happen. But what we're really watching is how will
they implement it? So if I'm a student and I'm enrolled in 12
credits and then life happens, because life. And I'm like, oh gosh,
I'm going to drop that class or I'm going to drop two classes and
take this other. So now Mulane rolls for seven credits, that's
going to. Now we're going to have to ask you to hand back some of
your loan funds. If we've already. So when, when does that
proration happen? Student affairs and financial Aid Administrators
hate to go back to students and say, oh, we gave you money, now we
have to take it back. Like that's the worst case scenario.
Melanie Storey [00:35:13]:
Right. That's terrible. Predictability and transparency and clarity
are so clutch for planning. So communicating to students that like,
you're eligible for this amount of borrowing based on your current
course selections, your enrollment, and again, life happens. So
it's not in any way, but just understand there's new consequences
to making, having to make changes. And that is this like tiny
little thing that I am. I just is going to catch a lot of students
off guard next fall.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:43]:
One of my foci in student affairs has been fundamental needs.
Security. So food security, housing security.
Melanie Storey [00:35:48]:
Yes.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]:
And my mind immediately went to, well, that money's probably
already spent on rent and food. And if we're, if we're required by
the government to claw it back from a student, that's going to
create a housing crisis. I can already kind of hear it coming. So
that's a really important nugget.
Melanie Storey [00:36:04]:
So communicating. And this can happen with your folks. With my
folks, we will do, we will shout this from the rooftops. It'll be
on every financial aid letter you get, every communication. But you
know, students are busy, no shade on them. Right. Like these things
can kind of come and go. But just understand this is a significant
change that can really upend, as you said, you know, very
fundamental needs and kind of stuff that we're spending a lot of
time and negotiating.
Melanie Storey [00:36:31]:
At what point is it locked in? Is it at certification disbursement?
Right, because the loan, you know, you sort of, you know, there's a
progression that happens with loans awarding, you know, and so we
are trying to make sure that we minimize the impact of this on
students as much as possible. But that is. Yeah, that's the sneaky.
That's the sneaky1 in OB3 for us, I think.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:53]:
Speaking of this particular area, our season's theme is on the
value of Student affairs. And so I'm going to ask you our three
themed questions. The first, when you think about the value of
student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?
Melanie Storey [00:37:07]:
I feel like student affairs humanizes higher education. Student
affairs professionals are the human face and warmth of what can
feel like a very opaque and intimidating industry at times,
particularly for our most vulnerable populations. And so I am a
first generation student, as I mentioned, my son is not. And it was
still amazing to me the things that he didn't understand and didn't
know despite I have a career in some of this work and So I just saw
how much, much work and effort the professionals at his institution
did to bring clarity and warmth and humanization to what can feel
really overwhelming for students.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:46]:
Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of
student affairs come to life? And maybe this is from the financial
side of the house, given that's where you've been centered.
Melanie Storey [00:37:55]:
Yeah. So I think in many ways, I think student affairs
professionals are also like the navigators of higher education for
students. Right. Like. Like when you don't know what an office hour
is. Right. Like, is it office hour when you don't bother the
faculty? Oh, no, no. Office hours are when you do bother the
faculty, you know, and bother is not the right word there, of
course, but.
Melanie Storey [00:38:16]:
And so I have heard time and time again, time and again, you know,
students who feel overwhelmed. Money is a very sensitive topic for
families. For students, it feels very vulnerable. You talk about
food and housing insecurity. These are. Are incredibly emotional
spaces, but essential, essential to the journey of higher education
that they, you know, that they have stable and that they see. And
I. And so for me, I have seen and witnessed time and time again
student affairs professionals connecting students with the
financial aid professionals who can feel very much like no people
sometimes because they are the ones, you know, they're the
gatekeepers to dollars.
Melanie Storey [00:38:56]:
And so they, I think, unnecessarily can have a reputation as not
being as warm, but they are fully committed to trying to solve the
financial financial issues. And I think student affairs and
financial aid working together are an incredibly powerful duo. And
I've seen countless examples of helping, saying like, your father
lost their job, your mother has had a traumatic medical issue. We
can get you more aid. Like, we can change things. Like. And it
just. That isn't in the mindset of students.
Melanie Storey [00:39:25]:
And so pairing that humanization over to the financial side, I
think is incredible.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:29]:
I always love to think of our financial aid partners as the people
that help us try to get to. Yes.
Melanie Storey [00:39:33]:
And creatively, that's where they want to be. That's where they
want to be.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:38]:
So especially if you're listening and you work in maybe student
care, case management, or in any sort of advising role, if you
haven't met your financial aid partners, they're a great resource
to help us try to figure out how do we find aid without necessarily
negatively impacting a student's future ability to borrow or what
the impact of maybe like an emergency loan will have on that
student, that type of thing. It's good stuff. And then our third
question is what do you think Student affairs needs to do to be
better understood and better seen in today's educational
environment?
Melanie Storey [00:40:09]:
I think we all need to be better at being strategic leaders. It's
really hard and I feel this way for my members too. We're day to
day dealing with individual students, with cases, with compliance,
with, with. I mean, it's, the workload is extraordinary. But we are
essential to the smooth functioning and success of students on our
campuses. And so I think it is incredibly important that our
student affairs leaders and our financial aid leadership be at the
table with our presidents and chancellors solving the problems, the
big problems, and bringing our voice to what we can bring to those
problems. What solutions can we offer, what creative endeavors can
we collaborate on? I feel like oftentimes the C suite is the
chancellors, the business officers, maybe admissions and
enrollment. But there's just incredibly important voices coming
from student affairs and from financial aid that I want at the
table.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:58]:
Before we transition into our commercial break, I would love to
hear from you on if you have any tips on, I suppose, demystifying
the inner workings of the U.S. department of Education, because I
feel like all of us in Student affairs have interacted with
elements of what the department has put out at some point. Some of
us have participated in negotiated rulemaking. Typically that's
been around Title IX for most of us or other areas like that. So is
there anything that you can say that will help humanize a bit of
this thing that is the department?
Melanie Storey [00:41:26]:
Yeah, you know, I mean, it's, this is a particularly tough time for
that because generally, historically what I would have said is, is
to really build relationships with the folks in your regional
offices because those are the folks that have direct access into
the Washington, D.C. based folks, but have a closer relationship
with the institutions. Unfortunately, with the reduction in
staffing at the Department of Education, a lot of those regional
offices were gutted. So that is a little bit harder. If I have a
tidbit, I don't have a really very good one right now. It is a
pretty tough time. It is really about person and relationships. But
the tidbit I might have is this.
Melanie Storey [00:42:00]:
If you are calling the call centers, if you're trying to get an
answer to a question and lagging, you're not getting it or it
doesn't feel right. Those call centers are generally staffed by
contract contractors. These are hard working, well meaning folks,
but they're also racing to catch up with what is happening at the
department. The real, the real answers are often found in
escalations and escalations mean, it gets to someone who is a U.S.
department of Education employee who's going to have to look at it
and go into the systems or do whatever they need to do. Understand
it. And so while it takes more effort and more lift, it is a little
bit exhausting. On behalf of your folks and mine, if it doesn't
feel right and you're not getting an answer, ask for
escalation.
Melanie Storey [00:42:39]:
Ask for the name of someone with an ed.gov email. That's, that's
the way to get an answer and be persistent. And the nuclear option,
if it's preventing students from enrolling, if students can't get
access to funds, if it, if it is significantly impacting their
journey to the point where they're going to have to drop out, the
nuclear option is to call your member of Congress or have the
student reach out to the member of Congress. And I don't say that
with any joy because that is really hard on my former colleagues at
the department to get these inquiries. But sometimes when a
student's future is at risk, it's the only option. And I ask that
you do it judiciously and only when a student's future is truly at
risk. But it is a way to get what you need.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Thanks, Jill.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:26]:
So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of
things happening in NASPA. NASPA recently signed a letter with 21
higher education associations to congressional leaders urging
Congress to restore FY 2025 funding for minority serving
institutions, MSIs that was terminated by the Department of
Education and to maintain and expand support for HBCUs, TCUs, and
MSIs in 2026. Citing the role these institutions play in serving
students with the greatest financial need. This letter, as well as
many of the other most pressing policy and advocacy updates states
are housed on the policy and advocacy website. On the NASPA
website. If you have not had an opportunity to be able to explore
the policy and advocacy website, I highly encourage you to do so.
With everything that is happening today and all the changes that
are happening seemingly daily, it's important to stay on top of
what is happening not only at the federal level, but in your
state.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:29]:
And NASPA is doing everything that they can to be able to track
things that are happening both at the federal and at the state
level that are impacting our institutions. I highly encourage you
to spend some time there. Come back on a regular basis and see what
the updates are, and you'll probably see some changes along the way
as well in regards to new things that are coming and things that
you may want to explore as well. On the NASPA website, some of you
may in the past have taken a look at and identified that we have a
great bookstore with books that have been written for NASPA itself,
and one of those books is Careers in Student Affairs, a holistic
guide to professional development in Higher education. This book
was written a while back, back in 2017, but the information that is
in it is as pertinent today as it was when it was written, and it
provides a comprehensive look at being a higher education
administrator, integrating perspectives from both research and
practical applications. It's a reader friendly book addressing
contemporary issues in higher education that are not typically
covered in a graduate curriculum, but that employers expect student
affairs professionals to be prepared for from their first position
and beyond. The book is written for both new professionals and
those transitioning to further levels of leadership, so it provides
a cross section of topics that apply to various levels of
experience. The book is filled with information and advice to
assist you in your developing plans for career longevity and
success.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:06]:
Each chapter includes a question for reflection to help readers
develop a career plan. It's organized into two parts. The first
part focuses on professional performance and explores issues such
as trends and contemporary challenges in higher education,
developing professionalism and support networks and ways to
navigate important issues such as organizational cultures,
politics, conflicts and ethics and the second part looks at
professional development with chapters that delve into defining
personal and professional success, advancing a career in student
affairs, becoming an effective supervisor, transitioning to faculty
roles, and giving back to the profession. This is an amazing book
and if you haven't had an opportunity to read it it I highly
encourage you to take some time to explore it and see all of the
amazing things that Peggy Holweis and Kelly Peck Parrott put
together as they were putting this book out into the world. And I
think you will find that it is an amazing book that can follow you
throughout your career. You can find out more by going onto the
NASPA website, going under Research and Publications to the
bookstore. The early registration for both the 2026 NASPA Institute
for New AVPs as well as the 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium are coming up
on December 7, 2025. Both of these institutes are amazing learning
opportunities for those that are either new to being an AVP or
those that are currently AVPs and want to be able to learn and grow
from others that are in similar roles as mentioned, the NASPA
Institute for New AVPS is a foundational three day learning and
networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their
unique and challenging roles on campus.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:00]:
It's appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who
report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer who have been
serving in their first AVP or number two position for no longer
than two years. The 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium is a unique and
innovative three day program designed to support and develop AVPs
and other number twos in their unique campus leadership roles.
Leveraging the vast experience and knowledge of sitting AVPs, the
symposium will provide high level content through a variety of
participants engagement oriented session types. The professional
development offering is limited to AVPs and other number twos who
report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer on campus and
have substantial responsibility for divisional functions.
Additionally, VPSAs and the equivalent who are presenting during
the symposium may also register at the discounted rate and attend
the Institute for New AVPS is happening January 22nd to 24th in
Denver, Colorado and the symposium is happening January 24th to 26
in Denver, Colorado. This offers opportunities for an individual to
attend both or only attend one of the three day sessions every
week. We're going to be sharing some amazing things that are
happening within the association, so we are going to be able to try
and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow
for you to be able to get involved in different ways ways. Because
the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we
have to find our place within the association, whether it be
getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one
of the the centers or the divisions of the Association.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:45]:
And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for
yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each
week. We're hoping that that we will share some things that might
encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas
that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say hey, I
see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing
something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for
you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer
other things things to the association, to bring your gifts, your
talents to the association and to all of the members within the
Association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and
the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out
more about what is happening in naspa.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:39]:
Chris, thank you. As Always for another informative week of NASPA
World. We always love learning what's going on in and around naspa.
And Melannie, we've reached our lightning round all about you. We
have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:50:54]:
Ready to go?
Melanie Storey [00:50:55]:
Okay, let's go.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:56]:
All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker,
what would your entrance music be?
Melanie Storey [00:51:01]:
Oh, that's Easy, Girl on Fire. I did that this summer.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:03]:
Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be
when you grew up?
Melanie Storey [00:51:07]:
Ooh, when I was 5 years old? Probably like a librarian. I was a
real, like, book nerd when I was little.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:13]:
Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Melanie Storey [00:51:16]:
Ooh, my most, my most influential professional mentor is probably
Becky Timmons, who was a great friend and mentor when I worked
serving college and university president.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:27]:
Number four, your essential higher education read.
Melanie Storey [00:51:30]:
Inside Higher Ed, the Cron, and now occasionally, Politico every
day.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:34]:
Number five, the best TV show you've.
Melanie Storey [00:51:36]:
Been binging lately, Ted Lasso. I just watched it a second time
through.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:39]:
They're filming right near where I live at the moment.
Melanie Storey [00:51:41]:
I love that, you know, Ted Lasso is fundamentally optimistic in the
face of lots of adversity, and I, I, I resonate with that.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:48]:
Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Melanie Storey [00:51:52]:
Smartless, I find funny and engaging. Kind of a mindless
entertainment for me. And it's smart.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:58]:
And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give,
personal or professional?
Melanie Storey [00:52:02]:
Well, I will say I would like to. I'll always give a shout out to
my NASA, to my NASA team. As I said, I'm just five months in to
this incredible opportunity. And whenever you come into a new
organization, especially after they had a long serving, beloved
leader, change is hard and they have been amazing. So Beth Maglione
and all the other folks at NASA have really been, have fast become
great colleagues, but also friends, and I appreciate that.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:28]:
I have deep respect for all the work that you all are doing, and
I'm very grateful that you were willing to share your subject
matter and expertise with the NASPA community. If NASPA members
would like to join you or learn more about nasfa, how can they find
you and your team?
Melanie Storey [00:52:42]:
Yeah, so our website, of course, is NASFA. N a s n faa.org if they
want to reach me directly, you're welcome to email me. I'm happy to
receive emails. And that is story with an E. So S T O R e m for
melanie.org and so welcome all feedback and input.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:02]:
Melanie, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us
today.
Melanie Storey [00:53:05]:
Thanks Jill. I appreciate it. Have fun.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:11]:
This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to
you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the
listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend
your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email
us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr.
Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and
guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell
a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on as
Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:41]:
It really does help other student affairs professionals find the
show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting
community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill
Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris
Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your
support as we create this project. Catch you next time.