Nov 7, 2024
This week on NASPA's SA Voices from the Field Podcastr Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Marcus R. Langford, the Associate Vice Provost for the Center for Learner Diversity and Inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU). Marcus shares his thoughts on leadership, diversity, and balancing a demanding career with family life.
The Path to Leadership and Diversity at OHSU
Marcus R. Langford's journey in higher education began with a personal challenge—an arduous college transition—leading him to become an orientation leader. This pivotal moment guided his career, allowing him to work in various capacities across the country, from Oregon State University to the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash. Currently, at OHSU, Marcus spearheads initiatives to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Throughout this episode, Marcus emphasizes the significance of collaborating with intelligent, talented individuals. He credits his ability to identify patterns, navigate complex systems, and engage effectively with people as critical to his professional evolution from a specialist to a generalist—a valuable skillset for anyone in leadership roles within student affairs.
Doctoral Research: Black Male Engagement and Placemaking
Marcus is pursuing a Doctorate of Education (EdD) with his dissertation titled "Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon." His research shines a light on the engagement and sense of belonging of Black male students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs).
Drawing from personal experiences, Marcus highlights the challenges Black students face in these environments. His findings reveal that while Black male students are actively involved across campus, they often find meaningful engagement in culturally relevant spaces like the National Association For Black Journalists and the Black Cultural Center. Unfortunately, these cultural groups sometimes face institutional barriers, such as restrictive catering policies that hinder the authenticity of cultural events.
The Need for Institutional Support and Recognition
Marcus's research underscores the need for institutions to recognize and support diverse forms of student engagement. Traditional engagement opportunities, such as student government, are sometimes less appealing to Black male students due to microaggressions and dismissive behaviors. Institutions must reconsider how their policies may inhibit students from expressing their authentic selves and engaging fully.
A practical example Marcus discusses involves the challenges cultural groups face when trying to work with external vendors to provide authentic cultural food. Institutional catering policies often prevent these collaborations, leading to unsatisfactory event experiences that can affect student engagement and sense of belonging.
Updating Theories and Practices in Student Affairs
Marcus advocates for a shift away from the overreliance on classical student development theories that may limit students' experiences. He suggests that institutions should expand the scope of what is considered valuable student engagement, integrating culturally relevant activities alongside traditional ones. Additionally, ongoing education for faculty and staff is crucial to understanding the evolving needs of students, which differ significantly from previous generations.
Mentorship and Professional Growth
Mentorship plays a vital role in Marcus's career. Larry Roper, a seasoned professional in student affairs, has been instrumental in guiding Marcus, emphasizing the importance of not needing to be the smartest person in the room and the value of continuous learning. Marcus appreciates the influence of younger professionals in challenging historical practices and pushing for necessary changes within the field.
Balancing Professional and Personal Life
One of the most profound insights Marcus shares is the importance of distinguishing between professional and personal commitments. He stresses that while he likes his job, he loves his family, and it's essential to prioritize personal relationships. This perspective, influenced by his mentor Larry Roper, reminds us that systems are designed to function without individuals, so self-care and personal well-being should not be neglected.
Conclusion: Moving Forward with Inclusive Practices
As Marcus R. Langford continues to lead efforts in diversity and inclusion at OHSU, his insights remind us of the ongoing need for institutions to adapt and support the dynamic needs of their students. By reevaluating policies, expanding engagement opportunities, and providing continuous education for faculty and staff, higher education can create more inclusive and supportive environments for all students.
Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on "Dads with Daughters," and be sure to catch future episodes where we continue to explore the intersections of personal and professional lives in meaningful ways.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of
student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers,
your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I am
overjoyed to be joined by Marcus R Langford, who is currently
serving as associate vice provost for the center for learner and
diversity and inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University or
OHSU. In this role, Marcus is responsible for providing leadership
and vision for the center to advance OHSU's learner centered
diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging goals. This work
includes providing educational engagement opportunities for
learners, as well as working with institutional partners to
envision and achieve a collaborative cohesive approach to the
enhanced recruitment and retention of diverse learners. In this
role, Marcus is fortunate to work with and provide leadership to a
talented team of individuals committed to cultivating
relationships, creating educational solutions, and interrogating
policies, practices, and procedures in partnership with various
institutional partners and constituents to build institutional
capacity for transformative change. Prior to his OHSU work, Marcus
was at the University of Oregon where he most recently served as
dean of students.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:01:23]:
Prior to U of O, over the span of 20 years in higher ed, he served
in several roles with increasing levels of scope and responsibility
at a variety of institutional types. Marcus has professional
experience in a variety of functional areas, including academic
intervention and advising, campus programming, crisis management,
diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, leadership development,
multicultural affairs, orientation and new student programs,
student involvement, and veteran student affairs. I also wanna take
a moment to pre congratulate Marcus on his future defense of his
doctoral dissertation. I'm so excited to welcome Marcus Langford to
the show. So good to see you, Marcus.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:01:57]:
Hey there. How are you? Glad to be here.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:01:59]:
So for our listeners, Marcus and I have known each other for a very
long time at this point. The very first time we met, Marcus was
working at Oregon State in orientation and retention, and I was
earning my master's. So we have been kind of at the same
institution on and off a couple of times now. And so I'm so excited
for our listeners to get to know you through your expertise and
your research and and where you sit now. We always like to open our
episodes by asking our guests how you got to your current seat and
kind of teeing up from that journey out of orientation. How did you
land into an AVP of DEIB space?
Marcus R. Langford [00:02:37]:
Glad to see you and talk to you again. Always fun to chop it up
with you a little bit, and thank you for, giving me this
opportunity. So whenever I talk a little bit about how I got
somewhere, for me, I always have to start at the beginning. And so
for me, starting at the beginning, you know, ensures that I let
folks know that I am a Southerner by birth. That's a big part of
who I am and how I see the world and how I approach the world. So I
was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I spent the vast majority of
my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. But even though I spent more
time in Cincinnati than in Birmingham, I still would say I'm a
Southerner by birth. And so the vast majority of my growing up in
Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm a high school English teacher by
training.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:03:19]:
So my undergraduate degrees are in English Education and African
American History. But how I got into the field was kind of typical
or classic, and so much as I did not have the greatest transition
to college. So much so that about midway through my 1st year, I
vividly remember this like it happened yesterday, I called my mom
and said, mom, I just don't know if this is for me. I think I want
to drop out and come home. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom said,
absolutely not. She said, dropping out is not an option. She said,
you know, your your dad and I and other folks have invested too
much time, energy, and effort into you, and you are more than
capable enough to be successful in this endeavor. So she said, do
one more thing, join one more club, one more organization.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:04:05]:
And if that doesn't work, at the end of the year, we can revisit
this conversation, but we'll talk about where you will transfer to,
not the fact that you're gonna drop out. And so like any good
Southern boy, I I did what my mom told me to do. And that one thing
that I elected to do was to actually apply to be an orientation
leader. And part of the reason why I did that is because even
though I had a difficult transition or a rough transition, the one
person that I actually was able to make some semblance of a
connection with throughout my first the midway through my 1st
semester and through my 1st semester was my orientation leader. I
still remember her name, Amy Mandler. And so in typical orientation
fashion, at the end of my orientation experience, she gave her
email, and her phone number and said, if something comes up during
the year, give me a call, and I'll see what I can do to help. And
so even though I had a, again, a difficult transition, that was the
one person who was somewhat of a lifeline for me. And so that one
more thing that my mom compelled me to do actually was being an
orientation leader.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:05:08]:
But I still tell folks, even though Amy was a really, really great
resource to me, I went into that experience with these nefarious
purposes in my mind. Because in my mind, I was a black student at a
predominantly white institution. And in my mind, I was gonna be the
orientation leader that really kind of kept it real. But as you can
imagine, for whatever reason, miraculously, I was selected. And as
you can imagine, I had a fantastic experience. My experience as an
fantastic experience. My experience as an orientation leader
connected me to the institution, connected me to faculty, staff,
and even other students in ways that I previously had not been
connected. And so that really experience really was a pivotal point
in my educational experience.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:05:47]:
Not only did it change the trajectory of my educational experience
as a student, but it ultimately ended up changing the trajectory of
my life. So long story short, I ended up graduating and I set up my
high school English teacher. So I taught high school English for a
little while, but elected to go back to graduate school to get a
master's degree. And I went back to Miami University where I did my
undergraduate work, I got a master's degree in higher ed. And at
that point, transitioned to higher education where I got my first
job in orientation and new student programs at Oregon State
University. So I spent about 5, almost 6 years at Oregon State
working with orientation and new student programs. So summer
orientation visit programs, the 1st year experience class before
ultimately, transitioning from there to Rhodes College, which is a
small private liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee. I ended
up going to Rhodes to help them build a traditional summer
orientation program.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:06:45]:
So at the time, Rhodes was a small school, and they operated on the
methodology that a lot of small schools did where they brought
everyone to campus about a week or two before classes started. But
what they found was that they were experiencing a high degree of
summer melt because their students, all of their friends were going
to orientation throughout the summer, coming home with schedules,
coming home with IDs, coming home with shirts. And when you're a
small institution that has a incoming class of a couple of 100, if
you end up losing 5, 10, 20 students, that's a pretty big deal. So
at Rose, I was hired to build a summer orientation program. So we
backed up their fall orientation to a more traditional 2 day summer
orientation program. So I spent some time doing that, but then at a
small school, as many folks may know, you end up doing everything.
And so that's where I started to get some more experience in
academic intervention and crisis work and academic advising before
ultimately leaving Rhodes to go back to Ohio where I grew up, to
spend time working at the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash, which
was a regional college of the University of Cincinnati. And for all
intents and purposes, I was the chief student affairs for that
regional campus.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:07:57]:
And so everything student affairs related at some point kind of
rolled up to me, and so that was career services, student
government, orientation, multicultural affairs, Hispanic and Latino
affairs. And so that's really where the breadth of my experience,
started to, expand, a little bit, and was there for about six and a
half, maybe 7 years before being recruited to come back to Oregon,
to work at the University of Oregon. So I spent 7 years at the
University of Oregon as an assistant dean, an associate dean, and
then ultimately the dean of student. And that's where we came
that's where we came back together. So that's where our paths cross
stuck in. Spent 7 years there. Had a really, really good and rich
experience there before ultimately making the transition to OHSU,
which is where I am right now as the associate vice provost for the
Center For Learner Diversity and Inclusion. And so I've end this
role in Portland for just about 3 months now.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:08:56]:
And when we think about your journey in student affairs, I think
you have a rich diversity of geographical experience in the field.
We see folks kind of do both. Right? Either that are very anchored
to one particular region or folks that kind of you and I both have
gone have gone all over the country in kind of service of the
profession. So I'd love to hear from you on as you've evolved in
the past, present, and future of your career, how has that
geographical space made a difference or informed the way that
you're practicing in the field?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:09:24]:
That's a very good question, and I'll actually add another layer to
that. And so I think my geographical experience has had an
effector, and I also would add a layer of institutional type. And
so what I would say is when I look back over the balance of my
career, I think the fact that I've worked in multiple states and
locations and the fact that I've worked at multiple institution
types, that has served to strengthen me as a professional. You
know, when I think about, you know, my experience at Oregon State
University, which was a large land, sea, sun, space, air grant
institute spa space, institution. There are skills and things that
I had to think about there relative to connecting with students and
the mission of the institution that in some ways did, and in some
ways did not transfer to my experience at Rhodes College, which was
a private, liberal arts focused, 1200 student institution. And so
they were yes, there are oftentimes some through lines that exist
when we're talking about working with and supporting college
students. But some of the things that my students at Rhodes were
dealing with were qualitatively different than, you know, some of
the things that my students at Oregon State were dealing with or
some of my students who, were at a commuter school, like the
University of Cincinnati Blue Ash College. And so again, for me,
whether it be institution type or geographical in nature, there
were just aspects of that that I had to think about
differently.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:10:53]:
And for me, I think that served, to enhance me as a professional.
Again, it it it forced me to think about what I did, how I did it,
and why I did it in different contexts. And so I had to be
adaptable and make adjustments, based on where I was. It wasn't
necessarily the ability, again, to pick up how I do what I do and
just drop it part for parcel from one place to another. So yeah. So
both living in a variety of different places and working at a
number of different institutional types, without a doubt, has
served to strengthen me as a professional in my perspective.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:11:28]:
You also went from being a specialist in orientation to moving into
a more generalist perspective as your career grew and you kind of
moved upward in the hierarchies of student affairs. How did you
manage to kind of acquire those skills as you went along that
really served you from going, okay, I am a person who is
implementing this program to now I'm a person designing this
program to now I'm a person who has this program plus a couple of
others. And then all of a sudden, you're holding all of the cards
for a dean of students area. And at the University of Oregon, it's
probably one of the larger dean of students areas I've seen at an r
one d one. I think a lot of times, modern deans of students offices
are really in the core of conduct and care, and maybe there are
some other functions. But the University of Oregon has about half
of the entire student affairs portfolio in the office of the dean
of students. So talk to us a little bit about how you made that
transition from your past experiences to the present of holding 13
departments.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:12:26]:
You're spot on. The dean of students portfolio at Oregon at the
University of Oregon was and is rather large, and it was a lift. I
I think one of the things that made that doable is the fact that
there were some very, very talented folks there doing some good
work. And so I was able to lean into the expertise and the
experience of folks that surrounded me. But I'll come back to that
because I think that's one of the reasons that I can say that I
think I was able to serve in that role relatively well. But going
back to your original question, yeah, so, again, I started, you
know, as a specialist with within the context of orientation and
new student programs. And I actually tell folks that of all
functional areas, I actually think orientation is a very, very good
one that can prepare you to advance. And one of the reasons why I
say that is there are actually a couple of reasons.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:13:16]:
One is orientation is one of those functional areas where and I
know you can say this about others, but you have to know a little
bit about everything. And so when you think about kind of
understanding the ins and out of an institution, and when you think
about being able to communicate and needing to communicate the
variety of what an institution has to offer to an incoming student
to ensure that they can cultivate a pretty solid foundation in
order to be successful, that translated to me as a professional.
And so, again, as someone who started as an orientation
professional, it was incumbent upon me to know a little bit about
pretty much every facet of the institution. And so I think that's
actually one of the things that I tell folks all the time that was
a huge benefit to me starting out in orientation. The other thing
associated with the functional area of orientation that I actually
think served me well over the course of my career is this notion of
being responsible and in a way needing to manage people, places,
and things that aren't necessarily yours. And so again, as an
orientation professional, it's imperative that, again, you marshal
the troops that you don't necessarily supervise. It's important
that you kind of manage and coordinate space that you don't
necessarily own. It's important that you manage people in terms of
how much time they get or not.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:14:42]:
Because if everybody wants 5 minutes, if you give 5 minutes to 10
people, 15 people, those 5 minutes actually start to stack up. And
so you need to be judicious about whether or not folks can get 5
minutes or not. And so I think those are all things that, although
it was coming in a, specialist way, they actually prepared me to be
a generalist and as I advanced my career. So those are just some of
the things that I think in terms of skills that I got from
orientation that actually were truly beneficial to me later. But in
terms of transitioning from something that I know a lot about and
have a lot of experience to starting to collect and be responsible
for a widening portfolio. Yeah. That that was a transition. And I I
think part of, for me, what allowed me to do that is that I place a
priority on listening.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:15:37]:
And so as I started to accrue some of these areas that I did not
have tangible or concrete experience with, I recognized that it was
important for me to listen, to the folks who were doing this work.
And then I also recognized, in addition to listening, that it was
important for me to invest time, energy, and effort to learn as
much as I could about these areas. Now I recognized again that I
wasn't necessarily going to be a content area expert. That's what
those staff were for, but it was imperative that I had a general
sense and a general understanding of the work that they did. And
so, again, listening and this notion of being willing and or able
to be a lifelong learner are things that allowed me to transition,
I think, rather seamlessly into this role of being a generalist as
I, continue to advance in my career. And I think one of the last
things that I'll say is how did I manage this, and this is the part
where I'll come back to u of o. One of the best pieces of advice
that I got from a former supervisor who's now a mentor of mine is
that she often talked about how one of the things that benefited
her was this recognition that she needed to divorce herself from
this notion that she had to be the smartest person in the room at
all times and that she had to have the answer every time right
then. And so when I think about my experience at U of O in managing
a rather large portfolio, with a lot of functional areas and quite
frankly a lot of things that I didn't have a high level of personal
knowledge with.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:17:13]:
Part of that was leaning into that I don't necessarily have to be
the smartest person in the room all the time, and so that was
really hiring and surrounding myself with smart and talented people
and allowing them to do what they were hired to do. Now I will say,
I think one of the things that, you know, again, that allowed me to
be successful in that is what I mentioned earlier around learning
and asking questions, and leaning into their expertise. But I also
think I have the ability to see patterns. I have the ability to
understand and navigate systems, and I think I also have the
ability to work with people. And so for me, those were 3 of the
things that allowed me to transition from a specialist to a
generalist, and I think be relatively successful in that
transition.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:18:12]:
Listening systems and people, those are Marcus's magic 3 for
achieving that AVP title. Now, Marcus, you're you're doing all of
this while you also had decided to become a PhD student or doctoral
student. And I remember sitting with you as you were starting your
journey, and I I passed you a post it that said, hashtag doctor
Langford 2025 or sooner. And I believe we are on track for that.
And so I wanna say huge congratulations to you for getting that
first full one through 5 submitted for review. That is an amazing
step. I remember the feeling for myself, all of a sudden, a level
of guilt just kind of lifted off my shoulders that all of a sudden
the free time I would take for myself was not weighted that I
wasn't writing or reading at the same time. But I'm I'm really
excited to learn more about your research and your findings because
I think it fits well with our past, present, and future theme.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:19:03]:
And also really aligns with your journey and your story as a person
who was seeking to find belonging in higher education at the start.
So why don't you tell us the, at least, tentative title for your
dissertation?
Marcus R. Langford [00:19:15]:
Well, thank you. Again, I do remember that conversation, and I do
remember that post that I just moved into believe it or not, I
actually still have it. I just moved into a new office, but I have
a bunch of things that folks have given me over the time. And so
since I'm still in the new offices and I just moved from Eugene to
Portland, it's in a box in my garage with the rest of my office
stuff, but I actually do still have that posted in a couple of
other things that folks have given me. Yeah. So my doctoral work.
So I am in the process of getting a doctorate of education, so an
EdD, and the title of my study is Making Their Own Way, A
Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at
the University of Oregon. And so I would say, generally speaking,
I've always been intrigued by the experiences of Black male
students at predominantly white institutions.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:20:04]:
And I'm very clear in a couple of places in my dissertation of
practice that my interest in this is deeply rooted in my own
experience as a Black male student at a predominantly white
institution. And so my undergraduate and graduate institution,
fantastic school in the Midwest when I was there, about 16,000
permanent students, but the institution exists in a town that had,
at the time when I was there, about 9,000 permanent residents. When
I was there, the number of black students so when you look at
16,000 students, the number of black students that we had never
exceeded 500, and I think that's probably being even that is a
little bit on the high side. And so, again, I had these material
experiences around what it means to be a black male student at a
predominantly white institution. And so first and foremost, again,
I've always been interested in thinking about the experiences of
those folks. And further, I would also say that while I've worked
at a number of institutions, I've also worked for a number of
predominantly white institutions. And part of my rationale in doing
that is because I decided that it was really important for me over
the course of my career to do what I can to be for other folks what
someone was to me. And so it wasn't an accident when I was looking
for jobs, you know, that I ended up settling at Oregon State for a
little while.
Marcus R. Langford [00:21:28]:
It wasn't an accident that I ended up back at the University of
Oregon. It wasn't an accident that even when I went to a small
school experience, it was Rose College, which is, even though it
was only 1200 students, overwhelmingly white, even though it exists
within Memphis, Tennessee, which is a relatively diverse city. And
so for me, again, thinking about the experiences of those folks is
something that has always been important to me. A little bit more
about the the the study. So one of the things that I've, been much
very much interested in is this notion of blackmail engagement at
predominantly white institutions. And so I talk a little bit about
this over the course of my study, but I've always been interested
in engagement. So when we think about involvement and engagement
within the context of institutions, we clearly know that being
involved and being engaged makes a material difference. And so
students who are involved, engaged, generally speaking, they tend
to graduate at higher rates.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:22:26]:
They tend to have higher grades. They tend to have a higher level
of satisfaction with their collegiate experience. So involvement
and engagement matters. But one of the things that I talk about in
my literature review is that there has been a fair amount of
critique when we think about what involvement and engagement means
and looks like. And so when we think about some of the foundational
studies that we build our knowledge in higher education on, to put
it plainly, that foundational knowledge, generally speaking, is
built by white men who've studied younger white men. And while
there's not inherently anything wrong with that, I think what these
critiques have shown is that as we've built our knowledge on this,
that has served to ensure that we don't necessarily recognize and
understand the full range of what these things can and should be,
and we don't recognize the full range of the experiences that some
folks have. And so what even prompted this study was that I would
have conversations with some of my colleagues and some executive
level administrators, and questions would be asked, why aren't
Black male students engaged on campus? Or why aren't Black male
students taking advantage of some of these same opportunities that
other folks are? Why aren't Black male students kind of involved in
student government? Or why aren't Black male students, you know,
kind of joining our historically white fraternities? Or things like
that. And what I thought then, and what was born out of my study is
that while well meaning, that type of perspective flattens the
range of ways that black males choose to be involved and engaged on
their campuses, and it also ultimately serves to release the
institution from their inherent responsibility to be mindful of why
folks are making some of the decisions that they're making about
where they choose to invest their time, energy, and effort.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:24:28]:
And so actually what I found is that black male students were
involved across, the landscape of the institution, but there are
choices that they made about where to invest the majority of their
time. And so things like culturally relevant experiences was very
important. And so, you know, they talked a lot about things like
the National Association For Black Journalists. They talked a lot
about the Black Male Alliance. They talked a lot about the
Multicultural Center. They talked a lot about the Black Cultural
Center. But in addition to those things, we also did have students
who did research. We had students who were in IFC fraternities.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:25:08]:
And so they did do a range of these things. But, again, I think it
was really being mindful of the fact that they were making some
particular choices based on how they would experience something.
And that's actually one of the things that I wanted to bring to the
forefront through this study. So I conducted 3 focus groups and a
couple of follow-up interviews. And, again, I found that students
are engaged across the landscape of the institution. But what they
also were looking for was the institution to recognize that through
the application of policies, practices, and procedures, that there
were ways that the institution could better support the engagement
and placemaking, you know, of these students. And so some of the
things, again, that institutions don't think about, we talk about
policies, practices, and procedures. A very trite well, it sounds
like a trite example, but it's really meaningful is if you go to
any PWI, one of the things that you typically will find is this
back and forth with cultural groups and campus catering.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:26:08]:
So what will happen and, again, it sounds trite, but walk with me.
So what will happen is student groups, cultural groups, will often
want to work with outside vendors around cultural food, but then
you often have institutional catering and food services saying,
well, we can do that. And students will say, well, yeah, you can,
but, like, the food is not gonna be that great it's not gonna be
that great or authentic or representative or correct or, you know,
we wanna support this business in the community, and the waiver
will be denied. Catering will do it. And in many instances, the
food is not gonna be good because it's not prepared by someone of
the culture, and the event will happen, but, like, students are
like, well, this food really wasn't that great. And so, again, as
an institution, those are the types of things that we don't think
about. Typically, some of our institution folks within our
institutions don't think about those as, quote, unquote, big deals,
but those are the types of experiences that when taken in total
really start to create issues where students, again, around have
the ability to be engaged and and kind of make place for
themselves. Another thing that came up was their decision making
around how they would experience an organization or an
opportunity.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:27:23]:
So going back to this notion of, well, why aren't students in
student gov these students joining student government, or why
aren't these students joining what we would define as these
classical engagement opportunities? The students would then say,
well, why do I wanna subject myself to an experience where I know
I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions on a daily basis?
Like, why do I wanna join this organization where I know folks are
gonna say off the wall things to me? Why do I wanna join this
organization where when I joined the concert board and I say, we
want to bring this person, I'm automatically gonna get shot down
because that's not the type of concert or music, you know, that
folks want to do. And so students, again, are making decisions
about where to invest their time, energy, and effort about how they
will experience things. And I think that's another piece that
sometimes folks in institutions don't really think about. They
don't think about how students will experience these opportunities.
And in not thinking about that, it releases them from, again, their
inherent obligation to ask some pretty difficult questions of
themselves of how are we inhibiting, you know, our students from
being their true and full selves through the application of our
policies, but then also not addressing what students are telling us
about some of the problematic things that they experience. So,
yeah, so that's a little bit.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:28:44]:
It's a good reminder that our institutions are always microcosms of
the things that are happening in larger society, especially because
institutions are designed originally with specific intent on who
they were serving, and those vestiges have definitely carried
through the present day in in student affairs. And one of the
things I most appreciate about the research that you're doing now
is I think our master's programs for a good couple of decades now
have done a good job of acknowledging who student development
theory was written by and for. But it stops there, and it doesn't
go the next step of saying, okay, well, now where are we where are
we conducting research? Who are the people that are participating
in our research? And how are we making sure that those perspectives
are more well rounded. And so I appreciate that your study is
filling a gap in the literature, but how can we change our systems
to be more inclusive of the traditionally aged black male
experience? That's not out there as boldly as it should be,
especially given where we are in time. And there's also then an
opportunity, I think, I'm I'm hearing, like, future publication for
you on on how this will get out there. And I appreciate the framing
too of saying, you know, the institution is not absolved of its
responsibility. And we both have a mentor who has said in the past,
you know, institutions are just buildings and people. And so
because of that, that means we are empowered to change those
institutions.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:30:02]:
Given that and given your research, can you give us maybe 1 or 2
recommendations for practice?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:30:08]:
Great question. So one, I think I would say it's important that we
adequately invest in these organizations and these structures that
we design. And so, again, I'll lean into my study participants. And
so one of the things that they talked about was, so there is a
black cultural center, and there is a multicultural center. But
oftentimes, what happens is institutions will have or build these
things to say, look, we have this, but what the students talked
about is, well, I appreciate that we have this thing, but can we
have a conversation about how it's on the edge of campus? Like,
what does that mean? Can we have a conversation about how you built
this building and there's only one person, you know, who's assigned
to manage this building? So can that person get some help? They
talked about things like having cultural organizations, but the
rules under which they have to follow through student government
and all these other things are often very, very difficult because
of their relative size. And so, again, I I think one recommendation
is to really think about whether or not we as institutions are
adequately investing, whether that be human capital or fiscal
capital, in these organizations and entities that are designed to
support these folks. So I think that's one thing. I think another,
recommendation is that I think it's really important to have some
sense of ongoing, you know, kind of education and or training for
faculty and staff.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:31:46]:
One of the things that I spent a lot of time talking about in my
role as the dean of students is trying to help faculty and staff
and administrators, I'll just say administrators, helping
administrators and the people who comprise institutions, helping
them to understand and reconcile that who you were as a student and
the student experience is qualitatively different than who students
are right now and what the student experience is right now. So
again, one recommendation is some, you know, training or
development for these folks to help them understand, again, that
who students are and what the student experience is right now is
qualitatively different than who they were as students. And so it's
really important that we think about whether or not the folks who
run these institutions have a keen and clear understanding of what
student needs are today. And so some of that can be accomplished
through training and development. And then I think the last thing
that I would say is so Sean Harper talks about culturally relevant
engagement practices. And so, again, I think part of this is
ensuring that the experiences and the opportunities that we offer
to students are culturally relevant and accessible. And so, again,
I think oftentimes we have a canon in terms of, like, what
acceptable or good experiences and opportunities are, and so I'm an
English major, and so I think it's part of what our responsibility
is is to expand the canon of what we see as good and acceptable.
And so again, there are many ways that, you know, black male
students were and are engaged on campus.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:33:30]:
And so some of that is around spending time with folks playing
Madden, or some of that is, you know, being connected to each other
off campus. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as institutions
to recognize the inherent value, those types of things as well, and
say and not necessarily get to this point of saying that, well,
those are automatically less than joining student government, or
that's automatically less than joining a fraternity, or whatever it
is that we do. So, yeah, so I I I think those are a couple of
things that in my mind were good pieces to consider, in terms of
future practice.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:34:06]:
Marcus, I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the
season. So I have 3 questions for you, 1 each on the past, present,
and future of student affairs. So we're gonna start in the past,
and I'd like to know from you, what's one component of the history
of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue
to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go
of?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:34:25]:
Well, I'll actually lean into what we were just talking about. I
think one aspect of our past that I think would help us is
loosening our overreliance on some of our classic student
development theory. So I think student development theory is
important. It can be instructive. But what I've also found, and I
even remember my experience as a newer professional, I think
sometimes unintentionally, what that allows us to do is to put
students in boxes, or it creates a scenario where, yeah, we create
kind of parameters that are too restrictive for how we think and
why we do what we do. And so one of my things about the past is I
think it would be helpful if we weren't necessarily so over reliant
on some of our classic student affairs theory. That's probably a
bit of, did he really say that? But that's what I think. I'm
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:35:17]:
with you on that one, cosigning that opinion. On the present,
what's happening in the field right now that's going well for
student affairs?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:35:24]:
I think one of the things that from my perspective is happening
that some people might not see it as a net benefit, but I think we
have some younger professionals who are leading the forcing,
encouraging, challenging us as a profession to ask some hard yet
necessary questions about who we are, why we do what we do, and how
we do what we do. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoy the work that I
do. I thoroughly enjoyed the work that I did as a dean of students,
but I think one of the things that I often say it was, I just tend
to be one of those folks who don't say that I love my job. I like
it a lot. I have a great affinity for it, but I tend to be a person
who I reserve my love for things that can love me back in a
tangible and concrete way. So I like my job a lot. I have a high
affinity for my job, but I love my wife and I love my kids. And so
I think presently, there are younger professionals who are having
that mentality, and I think that's really forcing us as an
institution to reckon with our reliance on, I'll say it, trying to
pay people with and through passion.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:36:34]:
Like, passion doesn't pay the bills, to be clear. And so I think
presently, yeah, there are newer professionals who are asking some
questions that are really, really forcing us as a field to contend
with some of our historical practices that probably needed to be
reconciled with a long time ago.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:36:54]:
I just wanna say for posterity, I quote you on that constantly. I
actually said it yesterday to somebody who was really putting in
like a 90 to a 100 hour work week. Actually, not even in student
affairs. It was in a private industry field. And he said, hey, you
know what? I have a friend who has told me a long time ago, I like
your job a lot, but don't love your job because your job will never
love you back. And that is something that I've taken from your
wisdom years years ago, and I I keep that with me. So thank you for
that one. And now it'll be out for the pod audience as well.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:37:20]:
Really quickly, to be clear, you know, I have leaned into that, but
that's something that I got from a mentor of mine many, many years
ago, Larry Roper.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:37:28]:
Oh, I'm sorry. Of course. It's Larry Roper.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:37:30]:
Of of course. That's a Larry Roper thing. Again, I I think the the
important thing is, again, is this is all about systems. And so
that's not to say that a system or an institution doesn't
necessarily appreciate you or value you, but I think it's important
to understand that there's a reality that the way that Larry put
it, we were sitting in the library, and he said, Marcus, what you
need to realize is if you and I walk out of this library and fall
off the face of the earth tomorrow, the lights will still come on
and students will still show up. And part of that is because by
nature, systems are designed to persist. And he said that's not to
say that we don't do good work, because we do. That's not to say
that we wouldn't be missed, because in many ways, we would. But
systems by design recalibrate to this point of homeostasis.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:38:17]:
And so as a result, it's important that you are mindful and
intentional to do what you can to take care of yourself because
there's no guarantee that a system will. And so, you know, that's
just something that I was very, very fortunate to get early on in
my career, and it has been instructive for me over my 25 plus years
career in this field. And that doesn't mean that I don't work hard.
To be clear, you can ask my wife and she can cosign this. That
doesn't mean that I haven't failed at that because in my mind,
while I think I've done a very good job of maintaining balance in
conversations with my wife and even with my kids, I know that there
have been times that I've fallen short of that. That said, I think
it's something that I've tried to consistently come back to, and I
think that trying to get back to it has benefited me greatly over
the course of my time in the field.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:39:08]:
I don't know anyone who doesn't love a good Larry Roperism. And if
you'd like to learn more from him directly, he was featured on
season 1 of our podcast when Corliss was hosting the show. So if
you wanna go back and take a listen, I just always appreciate
hearing from him. And Marcus, our our final question here on the
future is, in an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing
to thrive towards our future?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:39:30]:
I think I would say that it's incumbent upon us to ensure that our
policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who students
are now and the needs of students right now. You know, again, we do
ourselves a disservice when we frame and operationalize things
based on who we were as students and, you know, what brought us joy
as students. Yes. I I I think those things can, to a certain
extent, inform what you do. And I'll say something here, and it may
not be popular. But if you came into the field to replicate your
experience for other folks, I would challenge you to think about
that. It's not about replicating your experience. It's about
creating, supporting, and sustaining conditions so that people can
have a rich and meaningful experience, whatever that may mean and
look like for them.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:40:27]:
So for me, again, I think looking ahead into the future, it's
important that our policies, practices, and procedures are
reflective of who who our students are now and what their needs are
now.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:40:40]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:40:46]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. There's a
lot of things happening in NASPA. The deadline for the 2024
Leadership Educators Institute is coming up soon. The regular
registration deadline closes on November 11, 2024. The Leadership
Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11,
2024. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student
Educators International, and the National Clearing House for
Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all
professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue
to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:41:23]:
If you are an individual that wants to connect and learn with other
higher education professionals to advance student leadership on
your own campuses, then the Leadership Educators Institute is the
perfect place for you to go. You'll have the opportunity to explore
proven leadership theories and innovative curricula that will help
you to develop outstanding leaders on your campus. Just a reminder,
the regular registration closes on November 11th, and you can find
out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership
Institute is happening December 10th through December 13th in San
Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier
professional development program for women who aspire to be senior
leaders in higher education. The Leadership Institute provides an
experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the
higher education profession. Participants include women from
facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services,
student affairs, recreation and libraries who share a passion for
the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. At this
conference, you'll have an opportunity to come together with a
diverse group of professional women to drive collective
development, drive collective development, home leadership skills,
share experiences about how to continue to provide adequate support
for all students in a turbulent national landscape and create new
personal networks.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:42:43]:
Don't miss out on the learning and experiences offered at this
special event. Find out more on the NASPO website. Also coming up
on November 18th, there is a member briefing on translating data
into practice, 20 24 NASPA top issues, findings and practical
applications on campus. The NASPA 20 24 top issues results provide
a snapshot of what senior leaders view as key priorities on
campuses this year. This member briefing will provide you with an
opportunity to get an overview of the top ranked issues, including
centering the student voice, expanding access to mental health and
well-being supports, facilitating cross campus collaboration, and
more. This on top of examining how these trends shape student
support services. A key portion of the presentation will highlight
the prevalence of issues related to health, safety, and well-being
and holistic student support efforts on campus and how institutions
are leveraging NASPA's extensive resources and frameworks to
strengthen their response to these issues. We hope you can join us
for this session on translating NASPA's research findings into
actionable strategies to support student success.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:43:56]:
This is a free briefing that you need to log in to the learning
portal atnaspa.org or go to learning.naspa.org directly to find
this member briefing. Every week, we're going to be sharing some
amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are
going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything
that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in
different ways because the association is as strong as its members.
And for all of us, we have to find our place within the
association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge
community, giving back within one of the the centers or the
divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's
important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit?
Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will
share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to
be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity
to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I
see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other
ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available
right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your
gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members
within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are
stronger and the association is better.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:45:30]:
Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening
in NASPA.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:35]:
Chris, we always appreciate you informing us on what's going on in
and around NASPA. Thank you so much for another informative NASPA
world. And, Marcus, we are now at our lightning round. So I have 7
questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to do this?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:45:50]:
Let's do
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:50]:
it. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote
speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:45:56]:
Let's get this party started.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:57]:
Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you
grew up?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:00]:
A marine biologist.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:02]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:05]:
Larry Roper.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:06]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:08]:
I'll say the green book. I can't remember the title of it.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:11]:
We all know the green book. The student service Larry Roper helped
write this one.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:15]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Foundational information.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:18]:
Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:21]:
I just started watching Operation Lioness and Deceptively Good.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:25]:
Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:28]:
A Questlove Supreme.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:29]:
And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal
or professional?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:46:33]:
Personal, I always have to give a shout out to my family. My wife,
Mercedes, who loves me in spite of myself. And I also will just
wanna give a shout out to the fantastic people that I spent some
time working with at Oregon State Oregon State, at the University
of Oregon, one of which is Chris Winter. Chris Winter is the person
who recruited me to come back to Oregon, and I just thank the world
of her.
Marcus R.
Langford [00:47:01]:
And I'll second, cosign that shout out to Kris. She's somebody who
I also have been very grateful to call a mentor in my career.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:47:01]:
Alright, Marcus. We have reached the end of the road for our
episode today, and it's been wonderful to hear about your research
and your journey. If anyone would like to connect with you after
the episode airs, how can they find you?
Marcus R.
Langford [00:47:11]:
LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram are all Marcus r Linkford.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:47:16]:
Marcus, again, so lovely to reconnect with you, and thank you so
much for sharing your voice with us today.
Marcus R. Langford [00:47:21]:
Thank you, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Good seeing you and catching
up today.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:47:30]:
This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you
by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners.
We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with
us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org
or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We
welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd
love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and
leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros
find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger
podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by
doctor Jill Creighton.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:48:08]:
That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis.
Special thanks to the
University of Michigan Flint for your
support as we create this project. Catch you next time.