Feb 22, 2024
Embracing change and adaptability has been a focal point in the latest episode of 'Student Affairs Voices From the Field.' Host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Denny Roberts, who has beautifully woven his international experiences into the fabric of student affairs. In this blog, I delve into the highlights of their conversation and explore how Dr. Roberts' insights can inspire and guide student affairs professionals in their practice.
Understanding Diversity Beyond Borders
One compelling topic from the episode was the discussion around diversity in Qatar versus the U.S. Dr. Roberts and Dr. Creighton highlight that when working internationally, one must redefine what diversity, equity, and inclusion mean within the context of their environment. Dr. Roberts emphasizes the importance of cultural understanding in fostering engagement in highly diverse student populations. This urges professionals to prioritize intentional efforts and practice humility to make substantial connections across varied cultural landscapes.
Fostering Multicultural Engagement
The challenges that Dr. Roberts faced in Qatar's Education City showcase the complexity of creating universal student experiences without imposing one's cultural norms and expectations. He underscores the necessity of professional development and immersion to truly engage with the local culture. The emphasis is on the importance of educators obtaining a deep understanding of the cultures they serve, which is crucial in respecting the choices and experiences of international students.
Transitions, Writing, and Contributions
Dr. Roberts' journey through various career and geographic transitions sheds light on his decision to step into consultancy. This choice was driven by a desire to maintain personal freedom and a passion for writing—something he has continued with zeal post-retirement. His contributions in philosophy, history, leadership, and internationalization highlight the valuable interplay between practice experience and scholarly activity in student affairs.
Multipotentiality and Identity
An intriguing element of Dr. Roberts' narrative is the idea of being a 'multipotentialite.' He describes the traits—idea synthesis, rapid learning, and adaptability—which mirror his approach to student affairs and consultancy. This concept adds another dimension to understanding professional identities within the field and encourages embracing one's diverse skill set.
Reverse Culture Shock and Moving Forward
Dr. Roberts' return to America after living abroad opened a discussion on reverse culture shock. His advice for professionals seeking international experience is thoughtful and grounded in choosing deep, reflective opportunities over perfunctory resume enhancements. His message: be transformed by your experiences and seek an environment that respects and enhances your growth.
Conclusion
Dr. Denny Roberts' experiences and insights provide a compelling narrative for those in student affairs. They encourage educators to be adaptable, culturally sensitive, and intentional—a lesson in how one's experiences can shape not just personal growth, but also professional practice in diverse environments. Ultimately, his journey teaches us that transitions can be an avenue for development, inspiring new approaches to leadership and inclusion in the field of student affairs.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:00:01]:
Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme
of on transitions in student affairs. This Podcast is brought to
you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your
essay voices from the field host.
Dennis C. Roberts is an independent consultant, speaker, and
author. He last served as Assistant Vice President of
Education for Qatar Foundation. During his seven years with QF he
worked with Qatari and expatriate colleagues to create the student
development and support services for its branch universities at
Education City in Doha, Qatar. Prior to working abroad, he was
Associate Vice President of Student Affairs at Miami
University. He is past president of ACPA-College Student
Educators international, and has been a member and presenter
at the National Association of Student Personnel
Administrators and the International Leadership Association
throughout his career. He has authored 6 books and over 50 book
chapters and other articles on student affairs, student
learning, leadership, and internationalization. Denny, welcome
to SA Voices.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:00:25]:
Delighted to be with you today, Jill. This is awesome.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:00:27]:
It is such a thrill to be able to speak to you in our theme of
transitions this season. You have had quite a few career
transitions, both in your identity as a professional, but also in
your physical location. And in our preshow chat, I also got to know
you and I share a lot of transitions in common, so I'm excited to
dig into those. But I always like to get started with a question of
how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is
consultancy, which I know a lot of student affairs professionals
kind of weave in and out of or move through after a VPSA
position.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:01:01]:
It is kind of an interesting transition because I had done
Consulting before, you know, when I was full time employed and that
kind of thing. And when I decided that it was time to return to the
US from Being located in Qatar, I kinda struggled. Do I wanna
continue to work full time and therefore take another job at the US
or do I want to do something else? And a variety of circumstances,
both personal and professional, caused me to think, you know, I
really am kinda tired of going to the office every day and having
somebody else tell me to do is. So I thought, maybe I can make this
consulting thing work. And I also had just a gob of Ideas in my
head. And I've written, you know, quite a bit during my career, but
there was just this whole backlog of ideas That came to me from
working abroad, and I thought, you know, if I'm tied to go to the
office every day, I'm not gonna get these things Done. And what's
really been fabulous is my writing has actually accelerated in
retirement. I don't know if that will continue or not, but it's
been terrific.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:02:04]:
And I've had so much fun writing with younger colleagues who have
fresh eyes, with international colleagues To have a totally
different perspective. And the character of my writing has really,
I think, Changed in this post kind of and I like to call it semi
retirement because I can't give up. Right? So I really have not
adopted an identity of being retired. I'm still very actively
involved, so it was a real decision, personal and professional,
that I just wanted more freedom. And fortunately enough, I was very
blessed with having had a career that gave me enough economic needs
to say that I didn't need that monthly salary. And that's a tough
decision To make 2 in terms of how much is enough. Anybody that is
facing the potential of retirement, you have to kind of gauge,
like, what what's What's the lifestyle I wanna have? And I decided
that what we had was very much something that would allow us
stability, allow us time to do what we want. My wife was retired at
that point already as well, and we decided to move to Chicago to be
close to our grandkids.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:03:08]:
So, that was all a part of the scenario about How I got to the,
current semi retirement status that I'm in.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:16]:
You've been quite a prolific author and student affairs is with
over 60 journal articles and peer reviewed journals. I believe
you've either edited or, coedited. Is it 6 books as well?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:03:27]:
That's correct. Yeah.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:28]:
So with all of that, how has your voice as an author evolved from
your very first publication through when you kind of felt like you
were churning a burden and now?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:03:37]:
When I first Started writing, and I was extremely fortunate to have
matured in 2 settings that were very, very influential for me. One
was Colorado State University, and the other was University of
Maryland. Both of them and I was a 1st generation college student,
so I was kind of clueless about what the academic world really was
all about But I had some really good coaches in the early days who
urged me. They said, If you wanna be in student affairs, you need
to also contribute Intellectually, you can't just be a
practitioner. So I had role models at both institutions that urged
me to start writing. And the early pieces that I did, I mean, one
was I got involved in the whole issue about the age change for
alcohol On college campuses, and so 18 to 21? Correct. Yeah. And I
stood in opposition to that, Which was kind of an unusual position
to take at the time.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:04:34]:
And so that was kind of an opportunist publication, but not one
that is deep in my heart. So After that, I started working more to
just write about things that I really cared about, and that I felt
like I had really learned something, And then I had something to
offer, which is really very different than what a faculty member
experiences. And even though I've Taught both at the graduate and
undergraduate levels. I was never driven by tenure and promotion to
write certain sorts of things That get into the literature in a
specific sort of way. So I were really informed by my practice
Experiences throughout my life. So, you know, if I was struggling
with a particular issue at a certain time, then I tended to use
writing as kind of almost my public Journal, this is what I'm
thinking. And I don't know frankly, when you write, you never know
who's gonna Be touched by an article that you write, and it's kind
of a mystery to me in terms of who does read things that I write.
But I Have had feedback from some of my articles or chapters that
my narrative style speaking from personal experience, That
reflection has been helpful for other people, and I think that is a
different kind of writing than sometimes you would see in a typical
kind of Tenure track publication driven, you know, kind of an
environment.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:05:54]:
So my publications for the early start was kinda just but then it
became much more purposeful and more deeply reflective as I've gone
on. And the areas I've published in that I'm most proud of are kind
of student affairs, Philosophy and history, leadership, and then
internationalization. Those are the 3 areas that I've most enjoyed,
and I hope that the contribution I've made there has Made some
difference to shed some light on those topics.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:20]:
Am I hearing you as maybe an early adopter of autoethnography as a
research style?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:06:25]:
Probably. And I wasn't even aware That as a style. I had no idea
that that's what I was doing, but yeah, that really is kind of
where I'm coming from.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:33]:
I think my qualitative professor might be mad that I just called it
a would want me instead to call it a methodology.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:06:40]:
Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yep.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:41]:
Well, Denny, you also have had a prolific as a campus based
professional and then transitioned off of a campus. So why don't we
talk about that? You were at University of Miami. Is that Miami,
Florida or Miami of Ohio?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:06:54]:
No. It's Miami University of Ohio.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:56]:
I apologize to the state of Ohio.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:06:58]:
You have to flip The words there. So yeah. But Miami University in
Ohio is where I was.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:07:02]:
And you had, what I understand to be a fairly traditional rise in
student affairs going from junior roles to mid roles and finally to
that VPSA role. What was the state of the field when you determined
it was time to go overseas?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:07:14]:
Well, the idea of going overseas Cheese was really kind of planted
through a previous experience at Miami, and the Miami, and you'll
be very interested in this as a person interested To the study
abroad, they have a bubble program in Difertaj, Luxembourg. And I
heard about their invitation for visiting scholars, which were
typically Play usually faculty that would do those roles. Well, I
applied for it even though I was an administrator and I got it. And
so I got to spend a semester in Luxembourg, and then during that
time I taught and mentored students, and then I also wrote
Actually, one of my books, which is deeper learning and leadership,
which came out in 2007. So I worked very, very hard every week, And
I had a Eurail pass, and so if I met my writing objectives, then on
Friday morning, I hit Eurail. And I would go someplace. Well, guess
how many writing deadlines I missed?
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:08:10]:
All of them? None of them.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:08:13]:
0. I missed none of them. So every weekend I went someplace you
know so I'd go to paris I'd go to berlin I'd go to fiena I would
We'd go all over Europe on my Eurail pass because it didn't cost me
a thing. And every place I would go, I would land, and I'd find a
cheap place to stay, and I would start walking the city. You know,
that's what I would do every weekend. And so that just exploded my
idea about what it's like To be in other cultures and to learn from
other places and to be respectful and attentive to the differences
from myself as an American versus all the other worlds. And that
happened in 2005. And then I just kind of ruminated for a while
about, well, what was that all about? And Finished the book, got it
published, all that kind of thing.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:08:59]:
And then Qatar came to me just out of the blue, and I had not
applied, but they came to me and invited me to apply For what was a
newly created possession, which was the role was to coordinate
student services and development activities across the 8 branch
Universities that they had then attracted to, the Education City
campus in Doha, Qatar. And simultaneous to this, which is just A
very, very strange, fortuitous sort of thing is that my daughter,
Darby, was graduating from Carnegie Mellon University in
Pittsburgh, And they invited her to go to their Carnegie Mellon
branch program in Qatar. So Darby accepted the position first. They
came to me subsequently. My immediate reaction when I was invited
was I asked Darby. I said, Darby, this is crazy. I mean, your
father's gonna follow you halfway around the world in your 1st job.
I mean, Can you deal with this? Would this be okay? And she said,
oh, of course, dad.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:10:00]:
No problem at all. So I applied and they hired me and then I went
over and that was in the fall of two And I went over for what was
supposed to have been a 3 year contract, which was then
successively extended to 6, And then extended to 7. And then
finally, after 7th year, I said, I really need to go back, and I
need to be with my family. Unfortunately, my My wife was not able
to go over and live with me over there even though she came over on
a quarterly basis, and we talked every day. But that's one of the
challenges of expat work Yes. That always get to take your family
with you, and that's not always convenient. And so you have to
kinda figure out how that's gonna work. So that was a huge
transition Culturally, professionally, personally, I mean that was
the real kind of just crazy paradigm change for me when I went to
Qatar.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:10:52]:
So I grew up in the Middle East a little bit. I had my earliest
years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and it's a very different cultural
space. I also have spent some time in the UAE and then have good
colleagues in the Levant region, as well as, you know, just kind of
all around the GCC or the Gulf Coast region. On the show last
season, we had a good colleague from Kuwait and then also in the
season prior, colleagues from Qatar as well and from Kuwait. And we
hear that the the needs of students are just extremely different.
For those who are not familiar with Education City. As Denny
mentioned, there are more than 8 now branch campuses in Education
City in Qatar. I believe it's more than 8 now.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:11:32]:
And they have attracted or kind of what I would call joint venture
opportunities, really, where students from the local region are
coming in earning degrees with university names that a US audience
are probably a little more familiar with. But it's not as if you
can just transplant all of these Americanized ideals into this
environment where the value system is extremely different. So how
did you adapt what you knew and what you had been practicing and
researching to this environment that you didn't know at all.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:12:02]:
The Qatar Education City campus, it does have just 8 universities.
And, well, 6 are American universities, one is European, And then
there's their homegrown graduate school, which is called Hamid bin
Khalifa University. So it's the 8 institutions and they They are
not joint degrees. They are in the local environment. What's
fascinating about what they've been able to do in Qatar is that the
degree requirements Are exactly the same as the home campus. So if
you get a degree from Carnegie Mellon in computer science, The
curriculum is identical. And if it's Texas A&M engineering
curriculum, identical. So and actually, the degree is granted from
the home Campus rather than it being there as a local in Qatar, you
know, kind of a degree.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:12:47]:
So it looks exactly the same when you're done.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:12:50]:
Exactly. And so, You know, part of what the goal was was to
replicate the student learning experience between the US Or
European, and then the Qatar example. What's interesting about that
is that student affairs is very much a part of Most institutional
cultures in the US. And for the most part, the colleagues that I
worked with in Qatar, particularly those that were Country or were
GCC Air World colleagues, they had no idea of what student affairs
was about. Even for those that studied in the US, there's a
tendency, at least among the colleagues with whom I interacted,
there's a tendency for them to Not engage in the same sorts of ways
when they're in the US. So I had lots of colleagues that went to US
institutions That didn't even know there was such a thing as a
student affairs division, and what value did that bring, and that
kind of thing. So a major major part of what I Did there was to
raise awareness of what student affairs was as a historical and
philosophical and research based Commitment.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:13:56]:
And that I have to say, worked in some examples, and I'm thrilled
that it stuck. In other examples, that never really did take, and I
think that that's really something that international student
affairs educators have to face. Some of it's gonna stick, Some of
it isn't, and some of that is because of the differences in
culture. And I'm sure you know from your Riyadh experience and UAE
experience, I mean, the background that a student brings to the
learning environment very clearly impacts the way that they're
going to engage, and that relates to Everything from deference to
authority, to gender roles, to freedom of thought and expression. I
mean, there's just all sorts of things. And what's really
interesting is to try to contextualize the values that student
affairs can bring to another culture, But not do it in a way that
judges other people's way of being. I learned so much from some of
the students, for instance, that came from Pakistan, or from India,
or from North African countries, where the environment of their
expressing their views And actively engaging would have been
politically dangerous. And as educators, even though I value
democratic Education and full engagement, I had to understand that
I was potentially educating a student with a tool that could be
dangerous for them In terms of personal or professional
welfare.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:15:30]:
It's a really interesting tension, and that doesn't mean abandon
the values and the purpose that we have as student affairs
educators, but it does mean you need to understand the cultural
differences, and you need to respect the choices that students have
to make that might be different than what you would find in a US
kind of a setting. Did you find that in your in your work in the
UAE and Saudi Arabia?
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:15:55]:
Well, I was only in the UAE for a hot second, and, it was really as
a visitor when I was working for NYU in the past. But I think my
most relatable experiences as a CSAO in in China for a couple of
years, and that institution had students from 70 countries.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:16:11]:
Yeah. Well, we had a 100 in in In Qatar.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:16:14]:
So when you have that level of diversity, it's just very different
than what diversity is conceptualized as in the United States.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:16:22]:
Correct.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:16:22]:
And then even in my mind, what what the priorities are and
diversification are different. And the way that we talk about
inclusion and access in the US is actually quite ethnocentric to
the US, and I don't think that we acknowledge that all the
time.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:16:36]:
Amen. Amen. I mean, no, I mean, that's a really distinction, and I
think that the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion is very
important to in the US, and translating that in an international
All setting is very appropriate. However, the way that you define
it and what you understand to be diversity needs To be
conceptualized in a different sort of way.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:16:58]:
Well, absolutely. And the campus I was on had about 60% students
from China mainland and then 40% students from the rest of the
world. And and so when we look at that, it was also all of a sudden
your majority identity is not students who come from privileged
backgrounds from a majority ethnic white background. It's Han
Chinese all of a sudden, and so then the world shifts in terms of
what you understand. And so that was just quite a part quite an
interesting part of my experience and a huge transition for me in
the way I conceptualize things. I'm wondering for you then, Denny,
if You could talk about what's the number one thing you found in
terms of a universal experience amongst students in a setting that
diverse.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:17:39]:
Well, Certainly, their interaction with each other was very, very
powerful, and this was actually one of the things that I advocated
Very, very strongly. Some of the branch programs tended to want to
kinda develop their own identity of their own students kinda within
the bubble. So The Northwestern students would hang together. The
Georgetown students would hang together, etcetera. And that kinda
happened naturally because each of them had a separate building.
But while I was there, We built a student center that was a shared
space, and so the shared space was supposed to bring everybody
together and It was just overwhelming. Students just loved it. You
know, we had the bowling alley and the sports complex, and we had
the Convenience shopping, and we had meeting rooms, we had a
theater, we had an art gallery.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:18:29]:
I mean, we had all of that that then Brought people together. And
we eventually built residence halls as well. And the residence
halls again, you know, it was not clustered by your academic
experience, but it was mixed up In terms of both your academic
experience and your cultural experience. So it was very very clear
that our Students there and you would hear different languages,
different styles of dress, all of that all the time. And I assume
that you've observed the same sort of thing. So diversity of
thought and culture and background is ubiquitous. That is the
experience. And what's interesting about it Is though and we
actually conducted the national survey of student engagement of the
students over there to see what the real impact Was and while the
opportunity for exposure across culture was clearly there as a
Ubiquitous experience, engaging in it was a different matter.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:19:25]:
And if you look at US experience too, just that diversity is on the
Campus doesn't guarantee that there is multicultural engagement.
There has to be intentional effort to make it happen. There has to
be willingness. There has to be respect and humility. You have to
have all of those things, and that was a startling realization In
terms of just because you have students from a 100 countries
doesn't mean that you're going to have a multicultural experience.
You have to work at it. And this is something that student affairs
really is so strong in in comparison to other academic areas and so
forth. But again, as we're saying, It can't be replicated right
straight from the US.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:20:05]:
The principles of it, the philosophy of it, I think can be
transferred, but how you do it has to be different.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:20:11]:
One other thing that I always try to conceptualize is how do I help
lead a team to create a universal student experience without kind
of engaging in colonialism is the best way I can put it. And that's
so tough. Right? Because my training, my education, and my
experiences are primarily US based. And so as we look at you know,
we are privileged people to be able to live and work in another
country. We are also being asked to be there because of the
knowledge base that we bring and also trying to figure out how to
do that in culturally appreciative ways of the environment that
we're in. So can you talk about maybe a practice or some sort of
departmental shift that you had to make to really engage the
cultural elements of where you were compared to what you knew.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:20:56]:
I used some of the tools that I had used previously in my career.
So particularly because There was really not a base of
understanding student affairs from a research and theory and
publication point of view. We did a lot of professional development
efforts, And we did that actually in concert with some US
institutions. We established something that we called the Qatar
Foundation, YPI, Young Professionals Institute. And so we hosted
institutions like Colorado State, Maryland, San Diego, who would
bring their students over, and we would have these 2 week
Experiences that were intensive cultural immersion, and then
working in teams to bring ideas about Student affairs practice, but
then to to recreate it as a cultural context. So we would have half
US graduate and young professionals, and half Qatar based or Arab
world based people that were interested in the field or employed in
the field, and would they would work in teams together on certain
kinds of topics. So for instance, one of the topics that was just
wonderful to explore was the influence of family. And of course, US
students are all talking about, oh, it's Important for you to be
independent and autonomous from your families and so forth.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:22:05]:
And our local Arab world colleagues and Asian colleagues were
saying, no. Not so much. Not so much. And so literally, the US
students relearned in very powerful ways. But on the other hand,
Our Arab world colleagues, our Asian colleagues also learned the
merits of fostering independence and autonomy while doing it in a
respectful sort of way of Environments that are very, very family
oriented. One of the things that I also did personally was I
practiced Very deep humility on a regular basis, humility and
curiosity. And I had several cultural informants, who were
colleagues who were willing to give me the the straight scoop about
how I was coming across. Oh, that's
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:22:49]:
so important.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:22:51]:
Oh my gosh. It was incredible. I would not have survived without
them. No way. And so I would regularly meet with them and ask them
what was Going well. What was not going so well? And they would
tell me. And that was difficult at first because not only am I a
Privileged white American. I'm also old.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:23:09]:
I have white hair. And so in the cultural context, the reverence
For somebody of my makeup was very significant and I really had to
build trust so that people would tell me the truth. Because when
you're in that kind of a position as a privileged white American or
really kind of like as any kind of an American or European, you
have to understand your Privilege. And if you don't understand your
privilege, you're likely to do exactly what you suggested, which
you will become a neocolonialist. You will impose your idea on
other people whether it fits or not. And man, I just I learned so
much from that. And I learned a term recently Lee, that I I think
is kind of a really fun term. Have you ever heard of the term multi
potentialite?
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:23:52]:
No. That's new for me.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:23:53]:
It's actually TED Talks by Emily Wapnick. And when I listened to
it, I kind of went like bingo. And all my career life, I've had
wonderful jobs, and I've had a lot of fun, and I've had some
Pushback in terms of I sometimes kind of have a different way of
seeing things. Well, this multipotentialite thing has a lot to do
with it. And the 3 characteristics that she identified are that
they tend to be, very good at idea synthesis. They secondly are
rapid learners, so they catch on quickly, and they they go for it
while sometimes other people are kind of dragging their feet. And
then thirdly, they're very adapt Across environments. And those
things, I think, really, really helped me in the Qatar example.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:24:34]:
And I think it also relates to just My identity as an artist
because, you know, I have an undergraduate degree in music, and
musicians are always looking for relationships, and harmony, and
sequence, And patterns, that's who musicians or artists are. And I
think I actually express that in my work in Some pretty interesting
ways. And I'm saying this because I think some of us that may look
a little different or think a little bit differently than
colleagues around us sometimes End up feeling as if that were not
appreciated or were not affirmed. And I think it's really important
to kinda look at your own gifts and try to figure out how that they
fit With any particular work environment or any particular calling
that you may want to consider. And that has a whole lot to do with
this whole transitions theme of Knowing yourself well enough to
know your strengths and weaknesses, and then identifying
opportunities where your best gifts are gonna meet the The needs of
a particular environment, and you're gonna be able to be effective
in that other setting. And for the most part, I've been lucky. I
had a lot of good lands, Couple, that's so good, but that's kinda
the luck of the draw with some of that.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:25:43]:
Let's talk about the transition of reverse culture shock. That's a
rough one, and reverse culture shock, meaning you decided to return
to the US to settle into semi retirement. You've been living in a
different cultural context for 7 years at that point, but coming
back to a context that you're supposed to know and understand well,
but maybe may not make as much sense to you in some ways anymore or
may make more sense to you in some ways. So what was that
experience like?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:26:09]:
Yeah. Well, the first thing that I noticed was that People didn't
really care. And that was frustrating because I learned so much
from the work abroad experience I wanted to share. And so on
numerous opportunities, I waxed eloquently about my work abroad
experience, and eventually, I started noticing the glazed eyes And
the fact that people just weren't interested. And that was
disappointing to me as a reverse culture shock issue. I thought
That my American colleagues around here would welcome that more. So
I became more selective in terms of how I offered my point of view.
And lots of people that I interact Now I have no clue that I've
worked abroad and what my experience has been, and that's totally
okay.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:26:53]:
But I I had an urgency of wanting to share it. I think probably
came from just Self processing. So it was self processing publicly
by talking to other people about it. So that definitely was
something. Our choice of coming back To a setting that was more
inclusive and had more diversity in, and it was also very
purposeful. I was still working in Qatar in 2012 when we actually
purchased our home and my wife moved to Chicago. And we moved from
Oxford, Ohio. And, Oxford, Ohio is a Small town, kind of a bubble
kind of setting in itself, not a lot of diversity.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:27:27]:
I knew full well there was no way that after working abroad,
working with diverse colleagues, Working with diverse students,
then I would be able to come back and and really enjoy a setting
that was more homogeneous. So Chicago worked really well for us. We
live in a very diverse neighborhood. Lots of internationals or
expatriated people live in our neighborhood. Lots of cultural
Diversity, socioeconomic diversity. I mean, I live in Wilmette,
Illinois, and for those who have stereotypes about Wilmette, park
them someplace Because, yes, there is the the North Shore Sheridan
Road version of Wilmette, and then there's the version that I live
in. And the version I live in is actually very diverse and very,
very interesting. So the choice of where to come back as an
expatriate, I think, is very important.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:28:12]:
And that both relates To if you come back to work someplace, as
well as to come back to live someplace. I think you don't just come
back and replug in to the old way of being Because the old way of
being is gone. It just doesn't exist, and you're not comfortable
there anymore. So I was transformed by my experience and very much
sought Diverse experience, diverse exposure, and then dialing it
down in terms of sharing my international wisdom. I share that in
my writing. I don't share it in my personal interaction with
people.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:28:45]:
Yes. And now you're sharing it on our show, which we're very
grateful for.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:28:48]:
So, I mean, that was so powerful. It was, really wonderful. And for
people that might want to consider international experience, it is
a transition out and then back. And you can look at Transition
experiences that you've had in other work or personal circumstances
to look at the kind of strengths and challenges that you faced, And
then figure out how to navigate in ways that that do not violate
your values. And that's a really important part of this too is
understanding your values well enough to know where Where do you
have some flexibility versus where can you adapt and do it in ways
that are gonna be both to your benefit and the benefit of
others?
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:29:25]:
What advice do you have for US based student affairs pros who might
be looking for jobs in Education City or really anywhere outside of
the US?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:29:34]:
They're kind of idiosyncratic in terms of the selection processes
are not as transparent as they are in most US settings. And so at
least in my experience, I don't know how this compares with yours,
but it's not unusual at all for Referrals to be made on a personal
basis rather than for there to be a an application process that you
throw your vita or resume into the pile and it gets sorted out. So
taking on experiences that allow you to tiptoe into it helps. I
mean, my Luxembourg experience clearly Was tiptoeing into
international work, so it was a temporary period. It was like a,
you know, faculty study abroad program is basically what it was,
and I think one of the things that I worry about a little bit is
that sometimes I think people think that excuse me for being
negative about this, But I've seen some study tours quote that are
more what I would call ecotourism.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:30:29]:
Academic tourism. Don't even get me started. It's a whole
thing.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:30:32]:
Okay. Well, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And that's not
enough. If you're gonna choose an experience to Travel abroad, and
you want to do it in a professional developing sort of way, then
choose something that is a deep dive in terms of culture, requires
lots of preparation in advance, requires lots of reflection during
and after the process. Don't just go there to be able to notch it
on your resume, travel to x number of countries. That just doesn't
work, at least for me. And I I don't mean to be critical because I
know all of these are steps toward being more internationally
aware. But if you're in a student affairs position, you Kinda wanna
consider this internationalization thing, then do it deeply.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:31:14]:
You know, find a program that really is gonna give you a deep dive
and really engage you in ways that helps you to teach Humility and
curiosity. So that would be my advice.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:31:23]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:31:29]:
Thanks, Jill. So great to be back in the NASPA world. Really
excited to be able to talk to you about the amazing things that are
happening within our association. The 2024 NASPA Student Affairs
Fundraising Conference is coming up July 29th to July 31st in
Louisville, Kentucky. The purpose of the NASPA Student Affairs
Fundraising Conference is to share and exchange strategies, ideas,
and resources, And to discuss issues related to student affairs
fundraising and external relations. The conference promotes an
exchange of best practices, And it is designed for professionals
who currently have development responsibilities specifically in
student affairs And for professionals with backgrounds and
experience in either student affairs or development. The call for
programs for this conference is Currently open until February 26,
2024. And if you have an interest in presenting at the conference,
I encourage you to submit before the deadline To be able to be
considered to share with amazing professionals that are all there
interested in the same thing.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:32:38]:
At the same time, we are also looking for reviewers for sessions
that are submitted, and reviewer applications are also due by
February 26th. Information on both of these opportunities can be
found on the NASPA website. If you go to the event itself and click
on it, You'll find out more information. Help ensure that eligible
students are registered, educated about elections, and turn out to
exercise their right to vote by considering to engage with the
voter friendly campus program. This is a free initiative that's
been growing since its inception in 2016 in partnership with the
Campus Vote Project. You can find out more at campus vote Project
.org. I know in the past I've talked about the Leadership Exchange
as a great piece of professional development. This is a magazine
that's sent out by NASPA every quarter to be able to allow for our
vice presidents for student affairs to think about Topics that are
pertinent to the day to day activities that they are dealing with,
but that doesn't mean that if you're not a vice president for
student affairs that you will not learn so much by reading the
articles that are submitted.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]:
One such article that I would highly recommend is called budget
reduction 101, And it was written by incoming chair of the NASPA
board, Anna Gonzalez and Christine Livingston. The great thing
about this is that it is giving frontline perspectives on making
effective cost cutting decisions and really gets into the mind of
the chief student affairs officers on things that they can do to be
able to cut costs and to manage Their divisions in an effective
way. As I said, you don't have to be a vice president for student
affairs to better understand this topic, but you will learn so much
From reading this and getting into the mind of vice presidents
within our association. If you have an interest in learning more
about budget reduction or other topics, I encourage you to go to
the NASPA website under publications and go to leadership exchange,
and you'll be able to access the winter 2024 issue that does have
This specific article in it or many of the other issues that have
come in the past that I think that you will find to be Very eye
opening. I know I've mentioned this before, but there are some
amazing keynote speakers that are going to be at the 2024 NASPA
virtual conference That is available April 2nd through 5th, and
it's something that you and colleagues on your own campuses can
definitely take advantage of Whether you're going to the national
conference or not. A few of the keynote speakers that are going to
be highlighted That are going to be speaking at the conference
itself includes Josie Elquist, who's a higher education digital
educator leader and author, Shawna Patterson Stevens. Doctor Shawna
Patterson Stevens, vice president for inclusive excellence and
belonging At at Central Michigan University and also doctor Kevin
Kruger, president of NASPA will be speaking at the virtual
conference. This among many great concurrent sessions that are
available are going to allow for you and your colleagues to leave
the days with So much great professional development and
opportunities to be able to learn right from home or right from
campus.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:35:57]:
If you wanna find out more about the virtual conference, go to
learning .naspa.org Forward slash v c dash sessions. Every week,
we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening
within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep
you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to
be able to get involved in different ways Because the association
is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our
place within the association, whether it be Getting involved with
the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers
or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, It's
important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit?
Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will
share some things that might Encourage you might allow for you to
be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity
to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I
see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways
That allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available
right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your
gifts, Your talents to the association and to all of the members
within the association.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:37:22]:
Because through doing that, All of us are stronger, and the
association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more
about what is happening in NASPA.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:37:34]:
Thank you, Chris, for giving us the latest scoop on what's going on
in and around NASPA. And, Denny, we have reached our lightning
round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to
go?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:37:46]:
I sure am. Yep.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:37:47]:
Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote
speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:37:52]:
Well, I'm a classical musician trained person. It would be, The
last movement of Mahler's 8th symphony.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:38:02]:
That'll be a very dramatic entrance.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:38:03]:
Very dramatic. Very dramatic. Yep.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:38:05]:
Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when
you grew up?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:38:09]:
Oh, I wanted to be a concert pianist. That was my whole vision of
myself as a
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:38:13]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:38:17]:
Wow. This one is tough. I kinda thought about this a little bit
this morning because I've had some great Mentors, I have to admit
most of them have been women, and one person who is a colleague and
mentor is Susan Komovaz. She's a delightful human being, and we
Change a lot. Barbara Kellerman in the leadership studies world is
somebody that I really respect. Esther Lloyd Jones, I had a chance
to know her, and She taught me a lots of things about student
affairs and what we're here for, and so I broke the rule. I gave
you 3, so that's enough.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:38:45]:
Number 4, your Essential Student Affairs Read.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:38:48]:
Essential Student Affairs Read? Actually, Esther Lloyd Jones,
deeper learning and leadership 1954.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:38:53]:
Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:38:58]:
Oh, wow. Do I have to admit it? Succession. I'm sorry.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:39:06]:
Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:39:10]:
I actually listen to I do listen to this one, and I Really, really
enjoyed this this podcast, but I watch, the International
Leadership Association podcast, and there are actually a couple of
them that I watch, regularly to get the wisdom from those.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:39:25]:
And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or
professional?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:39:29]:
I thank Chris For introducing me to this opportunity, I think I'm
kinda known in the in the professional world as more of an ACPA
kind of person. So I don't show up in the NASPA space as As often
as I might, even though I've been an ASPA member most of my career.
Kevin Kruger was he had his 1st job with me. Yeah. And lots and
lots of colleagues that are very active in NASPA, but I have
maintained more in the the, ACPA area. And, you know, for me, these
professional associations are so important in terms of giving us a
colleague network, a way to push our understanding to Standing to
learn from each other and that kind of thing. And so I I would give
a a shout out to folks like you that are trying to get people's
voices out there and get exchanged And professional organizations
that allow us to relate to one another and discover how to do our
best work.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:40:21]:
Thank you so much, Denny. It's been an incredible opportunity to
get know you today and your story. If anyone would like to reach
you after the show airs, how can they find you?
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:40:30]:
My professional email is dc roberts48@gmail.com. And in Wilmette,
Illinois, I have a LinkedIn profile. I have 2 blogs That I maintain
one is called Pursuing Leadership by Denny, and that one's mostly
about it has a lot in travel because I started in 2005 when I went
to Luxembourg, but it's all by reading that I do on a regular
basis. And then the other one's called Global Student Affairs. And
that's more about international implications For people that are in
student affairs work. So those would be the best ways to get in
touch with me.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:41:05]:
I'm looking forward to checking out that second one in
particular.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:41:07]:
Jill, it's been great. Yeah. We have so many nice connections, and
I feel like we're possibly birthed from the same parents. I don't
know. But
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:41:16]:
I appreciate the deep connections on so many levels, whether it be
music or international higher education or student affairs journey
or even where we've been in the US. So, Denny, thank you so much
for sharing your voice with us today.
Dr. Denny
Roberts [00:41:29]:
Great. Alright. I look forward to seeing you again.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:41:34]:
This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field,
a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be
possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for
your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the
content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at s a
voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor
Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic
and guest suggestions. Ginz. We'd love it if you take a moment to
tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on
Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:42:08]:
It really does help other student fairs professionals find the
show, and helps raise the show's profile within the larger
podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by
doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by
doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan
Flint for your or as we create this project. Catch you next
time.