Oct 24, 2024
In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Mike Segawa, an esteemed student affairs professional with over 40 years of experience, to delve into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Mike shares his invaluable insights on the importance of storytelling, professional development, and the challenges facing the profession today.
The Power of Storytelling in Higher Education
Storytelling holds a unique place in academia, especially within student affairs. Mike Segawa underscores the value of storytelling not just for engaging students but also for communicating effectively with cabinet members, board members, alumni, and presidents. Particularly in the Pacific Northwest and among indigenous populations, storytelling is a revered cultural tradition. It serves as an entertaining and less threatening way to convey significant impacts and digest information. Through stories, professionals can humanize data and present compelling narratives that illustrate the importance of their work.
Grad Prep Programs: A Traditional Path with Modern Challenges
Mike reflects on the traditional career trajectory in student affairs, from resident advisor (RA) to vice president. However, he acknowledges that this path is becoming less common, as many professionals now enter the field from diverse backgrounds. Mike's own graduate program was extensive, covering legal issues, counseling, diversity, and history. Today’s programs, constrained by shorter durations, struggle to fully prepare students for the complexities of modern student affairs roles. This gap necessitates enhanced and ongoing professional development.
Professional Development: Beyond Conferences
Practical training such as graduate assistantships (GAships), internships, and practicum experiences are crucial but vary greatly in quality. According to Mike, professional development should extend beyond national conferences. Local and regional opportunities, as well as diverse and structured activities, are vital for continuous growth. Mike stresses the need for purposeful professional development plans that are aligned with individual career aspirations and institutional goals.
Sustaining a Career in Student Affairs: Combatting Burnout
The discussion also touches on the increasing burnout among student affairs professionals, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Jill Creighton notes that the complexity of roles has grown, encompassing more legal and regulatory challenges. Mike advises maintaining strong personal relationships and taking regular vacations as essential strategies for resilience. He emphasizes that supervisors must model this behavior to set the right expectations for work-life balance within their teams.
The Dual-Edged Sword of Technology
Technology has fundamentally changed how students interact with each other and with institutions. While beneficial, it also presents challenges, particularly through social media, which can sometimes cause harm. Mike highlights the importance of ensuring a balanced and positive experience for students, fostering both intellectual development and joy during their collegiate years.
Looking Ahead: Advocacy and Equity
Mike Segawa advocates for a proactive approach in engaging with public entities like legislators and civic leaders. By sharing data-driven stories, student affairs professionals can better demonstrate their contributions to education and gain support. He also discusses the ongoing challenge of promoting diversity and inclusion, noting the need to constantly justify these efforts in an increasingly scrutinized public and political environment.
The Enduring Impact of Student Affairs
Mike Segawa's insights highlight the critical role of storytelling, the necessity of comprehensive professional development, and the enduring challenges faced by student affairs professionals. His advice and reflections serve as a guiding light for current and future practitioners, emphasizing the importance of balancing work and life, leveraging technology wisely, and advocating for equity and inclusion in higher education.
For more insights and to hear the full conversation, tune into NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, where we explore the multifaceted world of student affairs and the voices shaping its future.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of
student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers,
your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA voices, we are
honored to welcome Mike Segawa. Mike served as an SSAO for over 16
years at the University of Puget Sound, Pitzer College, and the
Evergreen State College. During those times, his staff was
responsible for a variety of student services offices, including
dean of students, counseling and health, housing and res life,
career services, student activities, multicultural support
services, Greek life, orientation, outdoor programs, student
conduct, access services, and recreation and athletics. The
majority of his 40 year career was spent in residence life at
Evergreen, the University of Washington, and then Central Missouri
State University. And while Warrensburg, Missouri was not his
favorite place to live, he did meet his wife of 42 years there when
both he and Mary were on the residence life staff there.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:01:11]:
Mike has served many of our professional associations, including
NASPA, ACPA, and Akuhoai. While with NASPA, he served in a variety
of roles, including president, regional vice president, conference
chair for Chicago in 2001, and the Orlando joint conference with
ACPA in 2007, and 10 years on the national board of directors. His
most enjoyable role, though, was as the coordinator of the SERVE
Academy. He's also been the host for the Small College and
University Institute, a number of SSAO institutes, and the region 5
SSAO retreat. He proudly served for 12 years on the region 5
advisory board. Mike has been honored with the 2022 distinguished
pillar of the profession award, the Henry g outstanding mentoring
award from the APIKC, the 2007 pillar of the profession, the Doris
Machi Coaching breaking the glass ceiling award, and the region 5
Turner award. Now fully engaged in active retirement life, he
continues to enjoy his fanaticism for the Seattle Mariners baseball
team, fantasy baseball, running, traveling with his wife, Mary,
spending time with their 2 kids and their families who live in
Seattle and Virginia, and reading The Chronicle of Higher Education
for purely entertainment. Mike, we're so glad to have you on SA
Voices.
Mike Segawa
[00:02:21]:
Jill, thank you. I'm looking forward to this.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:02:23]:
And Mike, you and I have been connecting at annual conference for,
I think, probably several years at this point. You're a pillar of
that, the AAPI community for NASPA, but also a distinguished pillar
of the profession. And you've just had just an illustrious and very
complex career. So I'm looking forward to talking to you today
about the longevity of being a student affairs professional and
kinda what you've seen. And normally, we start our episodes off by
asking our guests how you got to your current seat, and your
current seat is retired life. So without kind of going too deep
back into the bio a little bit, can you tell us about your journey
through the profession?
Mike Segawa
[00:03:02]:
Oh, it was 40 years, Jill, and it never felt like it. I loved every
step of the journey. And, actually, you know, a lot of folks,
especially when I was a senior student affairs officer, asked what
was your favorite job? And they assumed it was being a vice
president. And instead, I went the opposite direction. I said,
actually, my favorite job was being an RA. And yeah. Absolutely.
I've said that in front of RAs.
Mike Segawa
[00:03:24]:
Every time I greeted them for training, I've said it in front of
parents and students. Being an RA was the best job I ever had. So
started there, but I loved every job that I had after that, whether
it was as a hall director or director of housing or vice president
or whatever. I loved every job, so it was a wonderful 40 year
career. But I knew it was time to leave when, staff would come to
me and said, we need a new strategic plan. And I said, yeah. You're
right. I don't wanna do that.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:54]:
Sounds like a lot of work. Right?
Mike Segawa
[00:03:55]:
Yeah.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:03:56]:
So it it sounds like what drove you into student affairs is that
kind of semi traditional RA path. What sparked joy for you as an RA
that made you wanna launch into the career?
Mike Segawa
[00:04:08]:
It was the basis of my happiness throughout my whole career, and
that was the individual students. You know, as we get deeper into
the career and you move up the ladder, the chance for contact with
individual students gets harder to do, but I always manage to find
ways to do it. And when I think back to my RA years, you know, when
I needed a study break, all I had to do was walk outside my room
and walk down the hallway, and there were always gonna be residents
there that I could talk with and just find time to have fun with.
Got harder when you became a vice president or dean of students.
You know, this when you would walk up to a student, they go, did I
do something wrong? But that was it. It was that individual student
contact that, even to this day, is the joy of the work. Because
every few months or even actually more than few months during a
month, on a monthly basis, I'll have some former student reach out
or some former staff member reach out, and we'll have a
conversation whether by email or phone or text or whatever. And
frankly, those are the highlights of the week, man.
Mike Segawa
[00:05:11]:
They still are, even now being retired for about 3 years.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:05:14]:
MEWI recently won a mentorship award, the Henry G, mentorship award
through the APIKC. And so I think that really speaks to your
willingness to give to professionals even though you're no longer
on a college campus day to day.
Mike Segawa
[00:05:27]:
Yeah. And, you know, the mentorship piece is a fascinating dynamic
to me because stereotypically, people see that almost as a one way
street that the mentor is providing support service to the mentee.
But actually, especially when I was practicing, I got more out of
that interaction than I felt the mentee was getting. Because I was
still learning so much about what was going on in the lives of our
students or our staff members or employees or whomever that, gave
me an insight that when you're especially sitting in what I call
the big chair, people don't necessarily volunteer that to you. And
so having those opportunities to engage colleagues in that way was
very much a two way street.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:10]:
I'll give a shout out to another NASPA pillar, Doctor. Mary Jo
Gonzales, who's a a mentor of mine as well. And she would talk
often about, you know, needing to find truth tellers when you're
sitting in the big chair, and being able to, have those around you
who who you can trust to tell you the truth even if the truth is
hard.
Mike Segawa
[00:06:28]:
Yeah. And, you know, and the truth can be hard, and it can be hard
to hear it sometimes. You know, and some of us are better at that
than others. And so that's something I think that requires usually
practice.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:06:39]:
So let's pop back to that RA space for just a minute because you
came into the student affairs profession at a time when the
literature, especially around student development, was still pretty
focused on a particular population. And so I'm just gonna name
that. We know most of our original student development theory work
was focused on white cisgendered men. And so we know that the
literature has evolved since then. But knowing what you were
getting into in the state of the field at the time, what do you see
as things that were important for you as a as a learning space? And
what did you see as things where you were still filling in the gaps
of your own knowledge and how you were working with students?
Mike Segawa
[00:07:17]:
As folks could see from my bio, I did my undergraduate work at UC
Irvine, and that was way back in 1975 to 79. One of my first
supervisors as an RA was an Asian American woman. Little did I know
how unique and rare that would be for me in my career to have an
Asian American woman be a supervisor. However, it was so important.
What I learned from her by watching her, by having her as a role
model, conversations and all that, that was hugely important to me
as I reflect, you know, on the whole arc of my career. And so it it
was just reinforcement for the importance of having a diverse
workforce, including in student affairs, and that we're still a
ways away from it. So that was hugely important to me, who I was
working with, who my supervisors were. And I had the advantage that
throughout my career, I had folks from diverse backgrounds who were
supervisors.
Mike Segawa
[00:08:13]:
But again, at the time, I didn't really appreciate it. They were
just my supervisor. They were Rob. They were Charlene. They were
Jim. They were the folks that yes. They're my supervisor. But their
identities, in their own ways, they role modeled how to do that
really well.
Mike Segawa
[00:08:29]:
And you know, I think the common denominator for those that I most
enjoyed working with in that role was their own self of sense of
self confidence and self worth. And so that's something that I
didn't fully appreciate at the time. And I think as we're on the
journey, you may not fully appreciate the presence of some of those
folks in your career. They could be supervisors. They could be
peers. They could be students that you're working with who are
student leaders. But surrounding yourself with folks who are
different from you in so many ways really enriches the career,
makes it more fun, but also enhances your skill set in a way that
the research can't do, the books can't do, the lectures can't do.
It's only in that interaction personally, 1 on 1 especially over an
extended period, that I think you get the most advantage of having
diverse voices around you.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:09:17]:
And in thinking about how diversity has evolved and DEIB has
changed from when you entered the field to now, can you help us
understand how that evolution felt as you were moving through it?
Because we can look at it from a retrospective and say, yes, we're
in a different place now, but we also know that happens
incrementally.
Mike Segawa
[00:09:35]:
Yeah. We are at a different place now. Maybe I'll start there
because the place we are now, literally today, honestly, I think is
so much harder than where we were 40 years ago when I first started
the work. The challenges that we are facing in the way of social
justice and equity, especially external to the academy, is not some
place I anticipated us having to go. And I've talked with a lot of
my colleagues who are still in the field, especially senior
officers, and I shared with them that I never imagined 10 or 20
years ago that we would have to be engaged in these kinds of
conversations, justifying what I would consider to be some of the
pillars of our profession, some of the core tenants of our
profession, the things that almost all of us grew up with,
believing in strongly and still believe in, that we would have to
justify it in the ways that I am seeing, especially at some of our
flagship institutions that are just more visible to the public and
to politicians and to other folks. So I'll start there. Like I
said, that I think today's work in the way of social justice and
equity inclusion is harder than it was 40 years ago. But the
evolution of it on so many levels is gratifying.
Mike Segawa
[00:10:43]:
We're talking about things now that are so much further ahead of
where we were 40 years ago. 40 years ago, it was very much a
representation issue. It was a numbers issue that we saw or the
lack thereof. Especially in student affairs, I'm proud of the job
that we've done in terms of diversifying our own workforce, but we
still have a ways to go with that. Whether it's with indigenous
populations or Asian American, Asian populations, Southeast Asian
populations, Hispanic, Latino, Latinx. We've got a ways to go still
with that. But it's gratifying to see that we're beyond simply
needing to get numbers in the door. And I think we've become,
inside the the academy and especially student affairs, we've become
better sophisticated about the students that we're dealing with and
each other as peers and colleagues.
Mike Segawa
[00:11:34]:
So that's progress. But we're being challenged now in a way, like I
said, I didn't see this coming. And it's really frustrating to me
that that's now a critical part of the work. Because having to do
that kind of work that many of you are doing in defending the work
means that's a diversion from being able to deliver day to day
service to students or to our institutions. Like I said, it's a
frustrating dynamic for me to watch.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:11:56]:
Do you have any advice for those of us that are in those weeds?
Mike Segawa
[00:12:00]:
Well, with student affairs and actually with higher education in
general, we generally don't get to shape the agenda socially, even
when it has to do with us in terms of higher education and our
students. So we do have to be reactive to it. And in this case, I
don't see this dynamic going away where having to justify the work
around equity and inclusion. It's gonna be on our radar screen, and
it's gonna be foisted upon us as an agenda item for a while. So
it's not gonna do us any good to try and avoid it or to downplay it
or to pooh pooh it or to just dismiss it as these are people who
just don't know or understand or their motives are not pure in why
they're challenging it. So having said that, I think that we in
student affairs and especially some of our senior officers and our
equity inclusion officers, we're gonna have to get more comfortable
and more engaged in what I call the public square conversations.
We're gonna have to be engaged in those conversations outside of
the academy, outside of our ivy covered walls, and engage it and
bring our perspective and data assessment to it to inform the
conversation. And we're not always gonna be successful with that,
and it's not always gonna be heard.
Mike Segawa
[00:13:17]:
But we need to have the opportunity to at least put it out there,
like I said, in the public square. And we're not used to that. You
know, our graduate programs don't teach us or train us for that.
Our professional training doesn't do that. I don't know that we've
seen very many, if any, programs at NASPA or ACP or anywhere else
on this kind of thing. But we're gonna need to engage our publics
in a way that we have not had to do historically around here. I
think we can do it. I know we can do it.
Mike Segawa
[00:13:43]:
But this is a different direction that we're gonna have to go,
because I think we need to be more assertive about sharing who we
are, what we do, and what it accomplishes on behalf of our
students.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:13:56]:
I think that's true both in and outside of the academy. One of the
things I've always talked about in senior leadership roles is how
student affairs tells its story to the rest of the campus community
and the stakeholders. Because I think a lot of student affairs
professionals, and I've felt this way in my career as well, kind of
always feel like the underdog a little bit that we're constantly
scrapping to prove that we are deserving of resources or time,
energy, what have you. And then we have on the other side, these
beautiful student stories of students who would not have persisted
without the student services that are coming out through student
affairs, whether that be things like camp programs or student
involvement or TRIO or I can go on and on and on about the list of
whatever that might look like. But we also don't do a good job of
telling that story even to our academic affairs partners sometimes.
So it's wise advice that you're sharing.
Mike Segawa
[00:14:46]:
Joe, what you just said is another one of my hopes for us as a
profession, and that is we do become better storytellers, which
means we're not lecturing people. We're not preaching to people.
We're sharing the stories, especially of our students. And a lot of
times, we let the student voices sing that out. That's absolutely
perfect and most effective. But we will be in places that our
students will not be. And so being able to tell those stories of
our students. And I remember many times saying to my staff, I need
these stories in my hip pockets.
Mike Segawa
[00:15:17]:
Because as a senior officer, I wasn't always privy to those
stories. But my director of student activities was, my director of
orientation was, my resident directors were. So I was always
searching for those stories that I could use, whether it was with
cabinet members, board members, alumni. Because during most of my
time, I was focused inwardly on those stories to within the
academy. I didn't have to talk very much with legislators and folks
outside the academy as I was just talking about, but I still needed
those stories. And I needed those stories to pass on to my
president because I wanted my president to have those stories in
his or her hip pocket to be able to pull out. So storytelling has a
proud tradition in so many of our cultures, you know. And
especially for someone like me being in the Pacific Northwest, our
indigenous populations have the most wonderful stories and develop
the most wonderful art around those stories.
Mike Segawa
[00:16:13]:
So, yeah, it is hugely critical, but storytelling is a much more
fun way to convey how we have impact and is an easier way for folks
to digest what we are saying and what we're trying to convey. And I
think it's less threatening, and it's more entertaining. So, yeah,
I do think we need to become better storytellers inside the
academy, as you said, Joe. But, you know, as I said earlier, it's
becoming increasingly important outside the academy now to be able
to tell those stories and to equip others to tell those
stories.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:16:45]:
You mentioned grad prep programs as a place where there's space for
evolution and how we're preparing student affairs professionals.
I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about what your
grad prep was like when you were getting your master's degree in
student affairs, what you're seeing now, and where you think we
should be going.
Mike Segawa
[00:17:02]:
Wow. That's a long term memory recall for me. Although it doesn't
seem like that long ago, it it really doesn't. And I think that's
part of the joy of the journey has been. In student affairs, for
probably the longest time, and certainly the last 25, 30 years, we
have often talked about an arc of a career in student affairs
starting with the grad prep program or even earlier than that as an
undergraduate, you were a student leader. And usually that meant
you were an RA, and then you went to graduate school and you got
your master's degree, and then you got into the field. Usually, it
was a residence life type position, and then you just moved up the
chain. You moved up your career ladder.
Mike Segawa
[00:17:42]:
And that was the stereotypical arc that led you to a director
position, an assistant dean, an associate dean, associate vice
president, and then you got to sit in the big chair as the vice
president. And that was a traditional career arc. You know, as I've
gone through this, actually, very few of us did that traditional
career arc from RA to vice president. And I say that as one of the
few unicorns that did that. I started as an RA, and I ended up as a
vice president. But, you know, most of my colleagues, most of my
peers, that wasn't their career arc. We came from all different
directions in terms of our journey to eventually becoming a senior
officer. So when I think about my grad program and what we did,
yes, it was really a very traditional program in that sense of how
we would describe it.
Mike Segawa
[00:18:31]:
It included programs like legal issues. It had a counseling
component. It did have a diversity component to it, history. So it
very much was traditional, which was a great grounding for me 40,
45 years ago. But the conversations that I had I've had with my our
faculty colleagues in these programs, especially over the last 5 to
7 years of my career, pointed out to me how hard it is on our grad
prep programs today to prepare our colleagues for this work because
there really isn't any way in a usual 2 year master's program to
really prepare you for the day to day work that you're gonna now be
entering because it's so much harder, so much more complicated, so
much more complex than the world I entered over 40 years ago. And a
2 year grad program can't possibly touch on all of the topics that
a supervisor would say we need you to get. And so that is the huge
challenge to our grad prep programs and to our students coming
through those programs now. There really needs to be
acknowledgment.
Mike Segawa
[00:19:35]:
The 2 year master's program, if a person chooses to come that route
into the field, can only be the first step in your professional
development and preparation for this incredibly challenging but
rewarding work.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:19:47]:
And it's interesting because one of the things I've been hearing
about the grad prep spaces is that there's some practical elements
that we expect that are taught through, GAships or internships,
practicum experiences. And that's uneven training ground depending
on where a grad student is placed, particularly in navigating
sticky political situations on campuses. And those are things
sometimes that we can only learn through experience and sometimes
stepping right in it in that experience.
Mike Segawa
[00:20:18]:
Yeah. Stepping right in it is a great way to learn. You just hope
you don't step into it too often. One of the things that, again,
towards the end of my career, I was really paying more attention to
both on my own campuses, but as a profession. We just have to get
better at providing our staff with professional development options
and opportunities. And to be more purposeful, have them be more
purposeful about them, help them to be more purposeful about it, be
more structured about it, and to look for the opportunities and to
create the opportunities that aren't just going to NASPA, National.
Some of our younger colleagues, I think, have this vision of, I
need to go to the national conference. That is the professional
development opportunity.
Mike Segawa
[00:21:05]:
That's the place to be seen. That's the place to get the jobs. And
all of that, to some degree, has some truth to it. But for me,
professional development over the course of your career should be a
diversity of opportunities that can be delivered on your own
campus, locally, within your community, regionally, nationally, and
as you know better than I do, Joe, internationally. So we, as
supervisors, just need to get our folks to be more purposeful and
structured about their own career development arc because it's
gonna it's even more important now than it was 30 or 40 years ago.
The skills and preparation and experience that our folks need to be
successful and to navigate these really challenging waters is so
critical. You are not prepared for the work coming out of the
master's program alone. And you're not prepared for the work just
by going to conference programs over the course of a few years.
Mike Segawa
[00:22:02]:
You're gonna have to develop your skills and experiences in ways
that are just very sophisticated, very purposeful, and very
diverse.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:22:11]:
And those skill sets may not actually be all that different than
the ones that you needed when you started your career, but the the
nuance around them might have changed for sure.
Mike Segawa
[00:22:19]:
Yeah. And what to me is even more critical now than it was to me 40
years ago, 45 years ago, is how to sustain yourself in the work.
That was really never a question for me and most of my peers for
most of our career. And when I say how do we sustain ourselves,
it's can I do this work for another 5 years? Can I do this work for
another 10 years? Can I do this work for another 25 years? That was
never really crossing our minds. There would be bad days or bad
weeks where we go, maybe I should go do something else. But those
are more fleeting thoughts, and they never stuck. Today, I mean,
especially over the last 5 to 7 years, I've had so many
conversations with folks at all places in their professional
journey that are asking themselves that question. They're not
necessarily sharing that with others and especially not sharing it
with supervisors.
Mike Segawa
[00:23:09]:
It was fascinating to me when I would be at NASPA having these
kinds of coffee vine conversations or just sitting somewhere
quietly on with these topics in mind. And I would ask folks, can
you see yourself doing this work for another 15 years? Joe, I and I
had dozens of those over the course of last few years. I didn't run
into a single person who immediately said, yeah. Absolutely. No
problem. I can easily do it. Every single one of them said paused
and said, I haven't really told anybody that, but I've thought
about it. Can I do this for another x amount of years? And usually
it was more than 5.
Mike Segawa
[00:23:43]:
You know, those of us who are close to retirement, it's like, yeah,
we can suck it up and do it. But those who are at mid level
positions or entry level positions or whatever, asking them that
question was really, on some level, heartbreaking to hear their
response because they didn't know if they could do this work for a
lifetime of work. And that's hard to hear, but it's also important
to hear because supervisors, professional associations, we need to
be paying attention to that in ways that I think need to be
different than what we have been doing for the last 50 years. Just
letting our folks go to national regional conferences saying,
that's great, that's good, that's professional development, it's
not enough anymore. And one other thing I'll add to it is budgets
are tight on every campus no matter what kind you are. And almost
always, the first things that we cut are professional development
dollars. We have to rethink that because that's a short term fix
that will have medium and long term negative consequences for our
profession, for our institutions, and our students.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:24:49]:
I appreciate you naming the burnout in the field. It's something
that we've been talking about on the podcast since I've been
working with it really, and COVID really did a number on a lot of
us, I think. And that's not specific to the student affairs
profession, but a lot of us were holding the space for
unprecedented decisions and times and things that were really hard.
And as you've mentioned throughout our conversation, the the nuance
of the profession has gotten more complicated. The litigiousness
has gotten more complicated, and the regulation has gotten more
complicated. So as you kind of observe those you're mentoring, what
advice do you like to give about how to find that resilience?
Mike Segawa
[00:25:28]:
It comes back to a lot of things that we know are important. It
starts for me with, do not neglect your loved ones. There are going
to be days weeks again where, okay, yes, I do have to spend a lot
of time with work on campus. But if that happens too often, if you
allow that to happen too often, and you don't pay attention to your
families, to those who are closest to you, that's gonna be
detrimental to them, to you, to your students. And we often let
that slide and and sacrifice that. And so my first thing to my
folks has always been take care of your families, take care of
yourself in that regard. But we oftentimes sacrifice that. And so
that that is number 1 for me.
Mike Segawa
[00:26:12]:
Number 2 is I paid attention a lot to vacation balances for my
staff. And those who were accruing huge balances, for a long time,
that was seen as a red badge of courage. You know, wow. Look at
that. You know, what dedication they have to the work. And I came
to believe, actually, no. That's a problem, actually. If we have
staff members, colleagues who are actually returning vacation
balances to the institution, that's not a good thing.
Mike Segawa
[00:26:40]:
And so as a supervisor, paying attention to those kinds of details
and literally really pushing your folks to use those vacation
balances, take the time, is hugely important. Most of our staff
have often been at will employees or exempt employees, which means
we also have the flexibility to give them some downtime that
doesn't have to come off the books of vacation or sick. When
they've come off those tough weeks, make sure they take the time to
be away and fully away, which is hard with your cell phones and
computers and iPads and everything else. But that's hugely
important to be able to do. And as a supervisor, you need to role
model that. There's a little longer story. But so many years ago, I
was asked by NASPA to do a workshop on and I think it was at a new
SSAO Institute. And they gave me the, work life balance
workshop.
Mike Segawa
[00:27:31]:
I'm going, oh, okay. I had actually never put together one of those
workshops, so I actually had to do some digging around and
creating. So I sent an email to about a couple dozen of my
colleagues, mostly vice presidents at that point, and said, what do
you think of this work life balance thing? And the traditional
answers came back, you know, you need to take the time, you need to
be attentive to it and all that. But I had a couple colleagues who
wrote back saying, you know, I really don't do it. I love my work.
I get energy from the work. And so I just dive in. And I don't do a
lot of vacation kinds of stuff.
Mike Segawa
[00:28:02]:
I don't take a lot of downtime. But they said, what I've learned
though in that process is my staff is watching me. And so if I'm
telling them to take time and I'm not doing it
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:28:12]:
They're not doing it.
Mike Segawa
[00:28:13]:
They're not doing it. Actions speak louder than words. And so even
the rare few for whom the work gave them the energy, so they just
really dug in and did so much of it. Even they said, I needed to be
more attentive to the message I was sending to my staff, and that's
hugely important. Most of us need the downtime. Most of us need the
time away. But even those of you who don't, others are watching
you. And if you're telling them to go away for a while and regroup
and refresh, they're not gonna believe it as much And they're gonna
see, I guess what it means is I need to be here all the time to be
successful because that's what I see my boss doing or my
supervisors are doing.
Mike Segawa
[00:28:49]:
So being a supervisor and being a leader is really a complex and
complicated job. You really need to think beyond your own needs and
how you best operate and look at how is this being perceived by
those around me.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:29:02]:
Absolutely. One of the best pieces of mentorship I received in that
regard was being able not only to take leave, but being able to
turn off my phone and my email and just be like, I'm not available
during this period of time. And I did that for me and also for the
team that I was leading, so they knew that they could also do that
when they went out.
Mike Segawa
[00:29:20]:
Technology, on balance, I think, helps us, but not always. And so
and I don't know if you were gonna go this direction, Jill, but
real quickly, in the way of our work today on campus, I have seen
technology be a real challenge for us, with our students
especially, student behaviors, the way students now interact with
each other, way they interact with us. And on balance, I think it's
provided more challenge than we found the opportunity right now.
Students on social media these days experience so much harm. And
how do we deal with that? How do they deal with that? The
conversations we have on campuses these days are oftentimes online
and not necessarily mediated. And so we're seeing damage being done
to our students especially that we were not prepared to deal with,
especially 10, 15 years ago when this first started breaking on our
campuses. And so I see the importance of not only us, but our
students trying to find distance from social media and technology
at times because it can be a really difficult place to try and
communicate, develop relationships, exchange ideas. I worked on
campuses in which I had too many students tell me I know the right
thing to say online or in person.
Mike Segawa
[00:30:33]:
It's not what I necessarily believe, but I know this is what I need
to say in order to stay out of the crosshairs. And I don't wanna be
in the crosshairs social media wise or in person wise. So it's
really made really genuine engagement for our students on campuses
really hard to do nowadays and really hard for us as student
affairs folks to facilitate those.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:30:55]:
I think that leads us really nicely into our 3 themed questions for
our season. So I'm going to start with our question on the past,
which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs
profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or
alternatively something we should be letting go of?
Mike Segawa
[00:31:11]:
Continuing forward to focus on the student and student learning and
the student experience. Student learning has been terrific as far
as an understanding of what skills our our students are developing.
But one of the things that we're not measuring well enough is, are
are students having fun? Are they enjoying themselves? Are they
enjoying the experience? It's great to measure their intellectual
development, their social development, and all those kinds of
things, but this needs to be fun, and it needs to be enjoyable. And
I don't think we've paid enough attention to that. So it is the
focus on the student that we bring forward, but moving forward,
these are supposed to be the best years of their lives. And for an
increasing number of our students, I'm not sure that it is. And
that's where we can help them in student affairs more than their
faculty members can, perhaps more than their parents can. That's a
role that we can well play for our students.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:32:05]:
Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student
affairs right now that's going well for us?
Mike Segawa
[00:32:10]:
Wow. That's a really good question because I don't know that many
of us think that way right now because of all the challenges that
surround us. So what's going well for us right now is we are
responding to the emergencies, if you will, the crises really,
really well. Go back to the pandemic. You know, that was just 2020,
so it wasn't that long ago. But the speed, the effectiveness that
we approach that, I give us a lot of credit for that because that
was something most of us, well, hardly any of us had ever dealt
with something like that. So there wasn't any playbook for how to
deal with this crisis on our campus. And earlier, we talked about,
the lack of appreciation for student affairs folks within the
academy.
Mike Segawa
[00:32:51]:
I think historically that's been true, but I do think one of the
silver linings to this pandemic has been especially our faculty
colleagues have come to appreciate even more what student affairs
people bring to the student experience. Because it was us that we
were leading the way on how do we respond in the pandemic, how do
we take care of our students, and even to some degree, helping our
faculty members understand how can they most effectively now teach
our students.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:33:17]:
And our third question on the future. In an ideal world, what does
the field need to do to thrive towards our future?
Mike Segawa
[00:33:23]:
Well, I have talked about it already, John. That is we need to be
engaged in what I call the public square. We need to now step
outside of our academy walls and engage the publics, whether those
are legislators, other politicians, local leaders, civic leaders.
We need to be more assertive about going out there and sharing our
stories. And for most of us, that should be fun. Bragging about our
students, bragging about our institutions, but doing it in a way
that we bring the data to. We can't just say trust us. That's a
huge difference from when I entered this work.
Mike Segawa
[00:33:58]:
40 or 50 years ago, I was taught the public trusts us in the
academy in higher education.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:34:03]:
That's definitely different than now.
Mike Segawa
[00:34:05]:
So if we say this is what we need to do when it comes to the work
of teaching our students, they will defer to us. The courts defer
to us. Parents defer to us. Politicians defer to us. As you said,
that's no longer the case, and we have not yet adjusted to that
reality. And that's not gonna change. We'll not go back to the days
where we would say trust us, and they'd let us do what we want.
Even those who are allies and supporters are now at a place where,
okay, I wanna believe you, but you have to show me why this is
true, or you have to show me why this is going to work.
Mike Segawa
[00:34:37]:
And we have not yet pivoted in a way, I think, that embraces that
and then prepares us to be effective storytellers of the critical
work that we're doing, you know, on campuses.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:34:49]:
Mike, is there a particular student affairs story that you would
love to make sure that our listeners hear from your career?
Mike Segawa
[00:34:54]:
So I spent, 1 year at the University of Nevada, Reno. I spent most
of my career in the Pacific Northwest and especially at University
of Puget Sound and 13 years as a senior officer at Puget Sound. But
for a variety of reasons, felt like the right time to leave was
then when I did. And the next year, I had some colleagues, some
friends at UNR asked if I would come down and help them out for a
year as an interim dean. So I did. And one of the last meetings I
had was with a student at UNR in my office. And she was there
because it was May. And she was a senior, and she thought she was
in position to graduate.
Mike Segawa
[00:35:32]:
All she needed was another class in summer school, and she would
graduate. And she had mapped this out to the penny for herself over
her 4 years. What she didn't realize in having to attend one summer
session was summer session was more expensive than the academic
year. So she didn't have the money to complete the summer session.
So a faculty member had referred her to me, to our office. She
explained her story to me, and she was a bartender at a casino in
Reno, which she said in her case, she says, I need to wear a
bustier to work. She said, I need to get out of this job, but I
need to graduate in order to do that. But I don't have the money to
finish.
Mike Segawa
[00:36:10]:
She needed $300 is what she needed, I think. So I had funds to be
able to do that as most deans and VPs do. We have some money. So I
was able to provide her with $300, and she could finish the summer
session. So she thanked me profusely, left my office, walked
outside. And she was walking by my office on the outside, and she
didn't realize I could see her. She was literally jumping up and
down and wiping tears away from her eyes. $300 did that, but it was
a huge reminder to me of why we do this work, what's important in
the work, and the joy that we can get from it, no matter how
complicated the jobs have become and no matter how stressful they
are, there can always be these reminders of what's really important
and what sustains us in the work when we have that kind of
interaction with one student, in this case, for a few $100.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:37:02]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:37:08]:
Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and
there's a lot happening in NASPA. The full registration for the
2025 NASPA Annual Conference is open. And that means housing is
open as well. So if you are planning to attend the 2025 NASPA
Annual Conference in New Orleans, This is the time to get in and
get all squared away with your full registration with free
conference workshops and housing and everything else. Take
advantage of the early rate until December 18th. For those of you
that are looking at attending, the conference programs will be held
at the New Orleans Ernest and Morial, Ernest and Morial Convention
Center, and the Hilton New Orleans Riverside. Sleeping rooms are
available in a number of hotels close to the convention center and
the Hilton.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:38:04]:
There's also a large number of pre conference workshops that are
available for attendees of the 2025 NASPA annual conference that
includes half day, full day, and multiple day pre conference
workshops. These learning sessions will take place on Saturday,
March 15th, and Sunday, March 16th. You can register for a pre
conference workshop to join colleagues and experts for an
opportunity to discuss important and timely topics in-depth. Now do
note that pre conference workshops do require an additional
registration and fee and are not included in the main annual
conference registration. Most pre conference workshops are an add
on to the main conference registration, which means that you must
register, you must be registered for the 2025 NASPA Annual
Conference in order to register for a pre conference workshop. The
exceptions to that include the International Symposium, the
Community College Institute, and the Undergraduate Student
Conference. The Public Policy Division just released a update on a
number of different public policy issues that are impacting our
campuses. Earlier this month, both the House and Senate approved
the short term continuing resolution extending federal government
funding at fiscal year 2024 levels until December 20th, 2024.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]:
This move signed into law by president Biden prevents a government
shutdown and pushes budget discussions beyond the 2024 presidential
election. For higher education, the CR maintains funding for the
Department of Education at current levels. Looking forward, the
binding, the Biden administration FY 25 budget request includes
eliminating origination fees on federal student loans and
increasing the maximum Pell Grant by $750 As house appropriations
chair, Tom Cole indicated, the outcome of the presidential election
will significantly influence whether Congress finalizes a full year
funding deal in December or opts for another temporary measure. On
September 24, 2024, the house also passed HR 5646, the Stop Campus
Hazing Act, a bipartisan bill aimed at enhancing student safety by
mandating that universities report hazing incidents under the Clery
Act and implementing hazing prevention programs. The bill also
requires that institutions disclose which student organizations
have a history of hazing incidents, increasing transparency and
allowing students and parents to make informed decisions. The
measure is now headed to the Senate for approval and if passed, it
would become the 1st federal anti hazing law. The College Cost
Reduction Act or CCRA introduced in January 2024 continues to gain
traction with 153 House sponsors pushing it forward. However, while
the bill aims to re aims to reduce college costs, it may increase
student loan burdens and weaken institutional accountability by
repealing the gainful employment and 90.10 rules and limiting debt
relief for students impacted by institutional closures.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]:
The outcome of the November elections will likely shape the future
of this legislation. The education department also extended the
deadline for colleges to report program level data for gainful
employment and financial value transparency from October 1, 2024 to
January 15, 2025 to accommodate challenges with the new FAFSA
rollout. The reported data will be used to evaluate program value,
including graduates ability to repay loans and earnings compared to
non college graduates. While supportive of the delay, advocacy
groups stress the importance of timely implementation to provide
students with critical information for making informed
decisions.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:41:33]:
Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are
happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try
and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow
for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the
association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have
to find our place within the association, whether it be getting
involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the
the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're
doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself,
where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're
hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you,
might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide
you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in
that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.
Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to
think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to
the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the
association, and to all of the members within the association.
Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the
association is better.
Dr.
Christopher Lewis [00:42:53]:
Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening
in NASPA.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:42:58]:
Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us updated on what's
going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we have reached our
lightning round portion of the show. I have 7 questions for you to
answer in about 90 seconds.
Mike Segawa
[00:43:10]:
Okay.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:11]:
Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote
speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Mike Segawa
[00:43:17]:
Center Field by John Fogarty. It's a baseball song. And this is
gonna sound weird, but I also told my wife, at my memorial service,
this is what I want played. So it's not only my walk up song, but
it's my walk off song too.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:30]:
Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you
grew up?
Mike Segawa
[00:43:33]:
Astronaut.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:34]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Mike Segawa
[00:43:37]:
That's a great question. I would say Greg Roberts was one of them,
Grant Sherwood at Colorado State, and most recently, president I
served at Puget Sound for 13 years, Ron Thomas.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:43:48]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read.
Mike Segawa
[00:43:53]:
Any book by George Kuh. And I say that now, and I will deny it to
George because I always give George a hard time. I always say,
people think you're really smart, George. You're not as smart as
they think you are. And he goes, well, I know that, but they keep
buying my stuff. So but, yeah, anything written by George, I always
paid attention to.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:13]:
Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.
Mike Segawa
[00:44:16]:
Lessons in chemistry.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:44:17]:
Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Mike Segawa
[00:44:21]:
You know what? It is a local sports station in Seattle.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:44:25]:
And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal
or professional?
Mike Segawa
[00:44:29]:
Yeah. Well, Mary, my wife, and I, we have been married now for 42
years, and she is also a former student affairs person. So she put
up with a lot over the course of our 42 years of marriage. So
that's the biggest shout out. After that, the staffs that I worked
with at what was then Central Missouri State University and then
University of Washington and especially at University of Puget
Sound and at Evergreen State College where I spent the most time,
those folks were hugely important to me in my life and profession
and totally enjoyable. And then at Pitzer College, where I spent
most of the last 3 years, amazing places to work because of the
amazing people there.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:06]:
Mike, I really appreciate you taking time out of retired life to
come back and share your wisdom with the NASPA community. If anyone
would appreciate your mentorship as well in the future, how can
they find you?
Mike Segawa
[00:45:16]:
It's easy, Jill. It's a little old school. Email is great. My
address, it's in, the NASPA directory if they wanna get there, but
it's also it's just mikesagawa@comcast.net.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:27]:
Mike, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your voice with
us today.
Mike Segawa
[00:45:31]:
You're welcome, Jill. Had great fun here.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:45:37]:
This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you
by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners.
We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with
us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices
at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l
Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest
suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague
about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other
student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more
visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was
produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.
Dr. Jill
Creighton [00:46:15]:
That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.
Special thanks to the University of Michigan
Flint for your support as we create this
project. Catch you next time.