Dec 4, 2025
If you’ve ever wondered about the real impact of student affairs in higher education—or if you’re searching for compelling ways to articulate its value—this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" is a must-listen. Host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together three leading voices in our field—Dr. Anna Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reesor, and Dr. Michele Murray—to discuss NASPA's groundbreaking report, The Human Dimension of College: Why Student Affairs Matters.
More than ever, higher education is under scrutiny. Public questions about its worth, declining college-going rates, and increasing skepticism about return-on-investment are creating intense pressure. Against this backdrop, Dr. Anna Gonzalez explains, this report began as a “bold” effort to clarify—and elevate—the unique contributions of student affairs to both the value (market-based outcomes) and worth (intrinsic and societal benefits) of the collegiate experience.
The conversation quickly gets to the heart of what makes student affairs essential. As Dr. Michele Murray points out, college isn’t just about earning a degree or improving one’s economic prospects; it’s a profound period of personal and civic development. The panel identifies seven core dimensions where student affairs “animates” both the value and worth of higher education: career and academic development, civic engagement, access, health and well-being, leadership, innovation, and personal growth.
Listeners will appreciate how candidly Dr. Lori Reesor and Dr. Michele Murray share their own personal journeys and the collaborative process behind the report. They emphasize the vital but often “invisible” work of student affairs—preventing crises, fostering dialogue, and guiding students through transformative moments. They also celebrate the report’s new toolkit, which is designed to help professionals tell their story better to external audiences—presidents, trustees, legislators, families, and beyond.
As the discussion closes, the call to action is clear: the time has come to showcase our impact on students and society, both quantitatively and through powerful stories. Whether you’re a veteran or a newcomer, this episode offers insights, practical tools, and inspiration to help you articulate why student affairs is more valuable—and more vital—than ever.
Ready to dive deeper? Listen to the full episode and access the toolkit via NASPA’s website—start telling the story of student affairs in a whole new way!
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where
we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to
seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and
accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you
happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs.
I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the
Field host today on Essay Voices. We are thrilled to be welcoming
the curator and CO authors of NASPA's latest report, the Human
Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters, which is perfect
for our season on the value of Student Affairs. We've got three
phenomenal student affairs professionals joining us today.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]:
Our past board chair and curator of this report, Dr. Ana Gonzalez.
Welcome, Ana. Hello.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]:
Hi.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]:
Hi Jill.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]:
Lovely to have you back on Essay Voices. And if Ana's voice sounds
familiar, she did one of our episodes in her board chair year. So
you can go back to past seasons and check that out. Our second
guest is Dr. Lori Reesers. Lori, hello.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:04]:
Hi Jill.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]:
Good morning and welcome. Coming in to us from Wisconsin today And
then finally Dr. Michelle Murray.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:11]:
Michelle, hello.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:01:12]:
Hi Jill. Thank you so much for having us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]:
And Michelle, one of our good old region fivers. So we've got
people from all over, all over the US today. So I want to get
started by asking you all how you got to your current seats and
then we'll dig into the reports. Ana, I know you've told some of
your story before on our pod. You're still at WashU. Anything you
want to add to your journey?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:34]:
Yes, thanks, Jill. I'm still the Vice Chancellor for Student
affairs at Washu. And now the last time I spoke to this podcast, I
was actually the NASPA Board chair. I am now on my last year as a
NASA board, as the board chair, pass board chair, recent passport
chair. So I think that's all that's changed.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:51]:
And Lori, it's your first time here on SA Voices. You were at UW
Madison. What you have going on in terms of your journey and how
you got to that seat.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:59]:
Yeah, thanks, Jill. It's great to be on and my first podcast. So a
little nervous but a little excited. I have spent almost my whole
career in student affairs. This is my third ssao job and it was a
way to continue doing the work as a student affairs leader, but
also come back home to my home state of Wisconsin. So it's a win
win for me and my family and just excited to be doing the work.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]:
And in our pre show chat I mentioned my mom is an alum of UW
Madison, as well as all of her siblings and her dad. So I have to
say, go bad on behalf of my fam.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:02:29]:
Go badgers. Love it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]:
And Michelle, welcome to our show for your very first time. We're
excited to have you former region fiverr. Now region one person,
tell us how you got to your current seat.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:02:40]:
Yeah, sure. So I'm at the College of the Holy Cross here in
Worcester, Massachusetts, and it's my third Jesuit institution. My
second time as the senior student affairs officer. But also at Holy
Cross, I serve as the senior mission officer as well. So staying
very busy and we like.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:57]:
To see that VPSA em in combination. I think you get a much more
unique perspective on the whole arc of the student experience when
you're going from recruitment to graduation.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:03:07]:
Sorry, you know what? It's not admission, it's mission. So. So the
Jesuit Catholic mission and identity of the institution.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]:
Excellent. Well, we're here today because you all have put out the
latest NASPA report. And Ana, this began as a charge under your
board chairship. Can you talk to us about why this report? Why what
drove the board in this direction to create this.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:31]:
That's great. So when I got elected as board chair elect, I've been
really. I was really thinking, where are we going in terms of as a
student affairs as a profession? It was a time when people were
saying they wanted to leave the profession. How hard it was a
little past Covid and really thinking of the value of student
affairs and why student affairs and why higher education. The
numbers were shocking in terms of people not wanting to go to
higher education, not believing in our. And then in many ways
student affairs over the years being blamed or being shut down, but
yet being needed when times of COVID or other disasters were
happening. And so it was really trying to get the lay of the land
to really respond and frankly to look up bold ideas about why
student affairs is actually the value proposition in higher
education and why I believe we bring worth to the institution of
higher education. But is that right? Is that just my voice? And so
getting really a group of experts in the field and then being led
and tapping Michelle and Lori to lead that discussion has been like
an honor for me.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:42]:
And I just love how the report ended up to be. But it was really
that response in my head thinking, what is the worth of higher
education? And as a first generation college student, I always knew
the worth. But it seems like so many people are questioning it
now.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]:
Absolutely. And we're seeing a shift in how the value of higher
education is being perceived across The US Right now in terms of
what does the value of that education mean for everything from
employability through positionality in society and other things. So
this is very, very timely for what we're seeing. How did you select
Lori and Michelle to be leading the charge forward?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:20]:
They are brilliant. So I've known both of them in different
capacities, met them both through naspa. Lori, during my first time
as a senior student affairs officer, she actually invited me to be
on a panel at a session. And then Michelle, she started kind of
taking on different leadership roles, and so. And then culminating
when she was the conference chair. I was always like, she's so
cool. Both of them are so great and cool. Both of them also
represent different regions, right? The east coast, the Midwest,
large R1, and then a private Jesuit institution.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:55]:
And so all of the things mattered to me. And so I wanted brilliant
leadership and then different experiences in the field.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:02]:
You started with a blank slate and idea to represent the value
proposition of student affairs. What was the charge to Laurie and
Michelle when you invited them to participate in this new
adventure?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:12]:
It was so funny because I come up with great ideas, and then I did
get brilliant people to actually make it happen. And they did. But
the charge was to think boldly, to really center the conversation
in our contributions in this profession and in the world. Why does
someone choose to go to higher education? Everyone gets a degree
when you go to higher ed, or you hope to. But what are the unique
things that actually enhance it? What increases the value of that
education? And so I kept saying, it's student affairs, centering
student affairs into dialogue, into discussion. And we've had some
fun conversations. They were like, oh, this is going to be a little
bold, a little scary. I'm not sure our other colleagues would
believe it.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:56]:
And so just kind of pushing that through. And they both said yes.
And so I love that. And. And they both led the conversation in
terms of making sure that the right kind of individuals, in terms
of who they represented, really fit in the group.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]:
All right, Lori and Michelle, you get the call from Ana. She says,
please help us build this thing. Tell us what your experience was
putting together the task force, as well as figuring out what the
heck you were going to write about beyond this idea.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:23]:
I'm happy to start. First of all, I'm a huge fan girl of both Ana
and Michelle, so you can't say no to Ana Gonzalez. I think
everybody knows that. And in all true confession and transparency,
I didn't get her vision. I knew she had it, but I wasn't sure like,
just like she said, like, what are we doing? Like, I get the
concept, I get the. But, like, how are we going to do this? And I'm
a little bit more on the operational kind of strength. I think of
things. And so I think that's just a lesson to, honestly, to NASA
members is sometimes you get asked and you're like, okay, I'm
in.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:56]:
I don't really. I don't think this is my strength. I really didn't.
But then when she partnered us with me and Michelle, which was
like, oh, my gosh, again, everybody knows Michelle Murray and the,
you know, the savior of the NASPA conference and all these other
things, I mean, it was just like, no. Yes, it's true. It's true.
She's shaking her head. Anyway, it was just an honor and privilege
and then to work with really amazing people, too.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:19]:
Right. So that was the other gift, is that the three of us then got
to put together our team. We wanted to really make sure that all
regions were represented. Represented. It represented all types of
institutions. And so then that made it really, really rich as well.
And so I described us as kind of a think tank. And that was, again,
really an honor and privilege.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:38]:
And I think Ana might have been desperate in. In picking me to do
this, but that's okay. It was fun. It was fun. It was good. It was
a good stretch for me. It was a good stretch for me.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:46]:
I'm going to interrupt to say the funny part is that I forgot to
say why I picked Lori. She talked about Michelle's great, amazing,
the conference, saving us and sharing that despite all Lori's
strength is Lori asks questions. And so she always makes me think,
like, we sit on other different boards and committees. And I love
that Lori thinks things through and asks questions. She doesn't
just say, this is how it's going to be. So that is why.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:13]:
That's so sweet, Ana.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:14]:
So my.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:15]:
One of my NASA awards, I have a plaque over in my office says, ask
the hard questions. And so thank you. Thank you for that. That's so
sweet.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:09:22]:
I absolutely see that. And I think, Laurie, you and I were very
different, but we work together so well, and I love that you do ask
questions. You're also really methodical about how we go about
things, and that helped us make sure that no stone was left
unturned. And really attending to all the different intricacies
that were a part of the discussions that we had, and you made sure
that. That we accomplished our goals. Right. It just was really
helpful, I think. Jill, your question was what happened when we got
the call.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:00]:
So let me go back to that and say, yeah, I was surprised. Lori is
100% right. No one says no to Ana. So I knew that wasn't even an
option. And I absolutely understood. I thought Ana was prescient in
being able to identify that there's a public concern about whether
or not it's worth it to go to college and what's happening at our
at higher ed institutions. And I already had a concern for myself
that were some populations of young people being discouraged from
college attendance. And so having this opportunity to really dig in
and describe what it is that happens for students when they pursue
a degree was, I think, really very meaningful to me.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:48]:
And so, as Ana said, right. People attend a class college because
they're hoping to get a degree. They work hard to earn that degree,
and that's one piece of it. There needs to be of economic benefit
in terms of employability at the end. And I get that too. And there
is something that's happening during college attendance that's
really about an informed citizenry, that's really about how people
work and live together that is less talked about and less known.
But still, as a society, we rely on all of that. We rely on that
human development.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:11:26]:
So having an opportunity to think boldly with a group of colleagues
about how might we represent this, this side of college attendance
that isn't really talked about very much, how do we represent it
fairly and in a way that people understand it and can get on the
train and believe in its importance? I thought that was a really
great vision that Ana had and I'm really feel really lucky to have
been a part of it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:54]:
I want to make sure we mention for NASPA members, this report is
available for free with your membership. It was also sent out in an
email earlier in October. So please go back and check it out and
you can kind of follow along with our conversation. One of the
things that's right up front in the report is the executive summary
that distinguishes the importance and delineation of value versus
worth. This is such an important component. Our season theme for
the podcast is the value of student affairs. As soon as I read
this, I went, oh, maybe we should have reframed this as both value
and worth. And so I want to just read a moment in the report.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:26]:
It reads, the value refers to the market based outcomes of higher
education such as employment, income and economic security, Whereas
worth encompasses the intrinsic and societal benefits of a degree
such as civic participation, personal growth, and community
vitality. Both are essential and both are strengthened by student
affairs. Why did you all decide to anchor the report with this
message?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:48]:
I can start a little bit and maybe the two of you can jump right in
there. You know, I've been thinking a lot about, as I thought about
the podcast and this work, I had a trustee at my former institution
at Harvey Mudd, and he did not have a college education, did not,
and is executive vice president of a major, major corporation. And
always said they just thought it was too late to get a college
education. But he invests his time and money and energy in college
education. And again, saying that there is something both the
worth, right, you graduate. But more importantly, he said, there's
something that is so valuable about college education that you
can't put money on it. But the students learn to be leaders. And so
I think in our discussion of value and worth, the different ROIs,
what are they and how do we categorize them? But the value and
worth piece did not come from me, although that's in a way what I
was thinking.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:50]:
We led to it. So Michelle and Lori can jump in there. But I
remember it vividly. The conversation at my dining room table with
the committee at my home.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:13:59]:
Let me jump in there. And Ana just referenced our first in person
meeting. And maybe it was our only in person meeting. It was
several days long and she opened her home to us. And so we had
these very deep conversations about what is happening for students
when they are enrolled in our institutions in a really comfortable,
hospitable environment that allowed us to play with the different
ideas and identify what it is that we observe and have been
observing over the course of our careers. And very quickly,
actually, we settled into this conversation about value and worth.
And NASPA is doing its strategic planning concurrent to us having
these conversations. And so maybe part of it was related to the
conversations that NASPA was having separate from this task
force.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:14:51]:
But almost very quickly, you know, we said there is something
that's happening for students in their growth and development that
has everything to do with their out of classroom experience. And
that's the piece that we have to capture because the public
conversation is about the worth of the degree and what happens
around employability. And we were focused on how students, the only
words I have for this is how they come home to themselves and
discover a bit about who they are and how they want to be in the
world. And so that's what we wanted to identify as. At least that's
my recollection of how that all came together.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:15:32]:
You can tell Michelle's Mission driven purpose in life always comes
through which I adore and respect and admire so much. And that was
a huge integral part of this project too, I think. Like Ana, I'm a
first generation college student and going to college changed my
life. I'm the oldest of six children. I'm the only one that
finished college. And I love all my siblings and they have great
lives, but they have different lives and in a lot of ways and so
I'm grateful. And that's what propelled me to go into student
affairs, that's what propels me to stay in this work, is that I
truly believe higher education changes lives and I believe higher
education changes society and democracy and all of those really
important things. And I respect it's not for everybody.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:14]:
I totally get that. And that's part of that narrative out there. So
I do struggle a little bit with elitism and those messages that are
coming out in our society or from some sectors of our society. And
yet I think it should be be a core value of education. It should be
a core value of learning. And so learning can happen in lots of
different ways and lots of different places and with lots of
different strengths. But it's learning either a subject matter,
whether that's political science or biology, or how to be a great
plumber, all those things are about learning. And then I think the
other piece though, that that is where we do make this difference
is about, as Michelle said, learning about oneself and one's
community and the broader world as well.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:57]:
And so that is the piece that I do have a bias that I think would
be great that everybody does focus on that. And if they don't do it
through higher education, okay, then I hope that they do it in some
other forms. And maybe it's through their religious or other
communities or some of those other kinds of things. But we have to
get better in our society about caring more about others and
respect and dignity for all of humankind. And I do believe that's a
huge. I always struggle with the value and worth that's a huge
worth that we provide in student affairs and through higher
education. So those were some of the important things that we were
trying to document. And I just want to give a quick shout out
because I don't want to forget this.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:17:31]:
And I know Michelle and Ana will jump in on this too. Brian
Sponsler helped, was really, really instrumental and he was our
consultant that worked with us on this project and a phenomenal
thinker and writer. And I just want to, he really helped also, I
think, shape some of this conversation and the value and worth. So
we had a great committee and everybody contributed and they were
all fabulous. But Brian absolutely deserves a huge shout out for
the great work that he did. And so thank you, Brian, on behalf of
us and NASPA, all of higher education.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:18:02]:
I 100% agree with that. Thank you, Brian.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:04]:
Thanks, Brian.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:05]:
Ultimately, you landed on seven dimensions that represent areas of
student affairs and as you say, animate the value and the worth of
our profession. They were career and academic development, civic
engagement and community responsibility, access and opportunity,
health and well being, leadership and ethical decision making,
problem solving and innovation, and personal development and life
skills. Our profession is hard to encompass and capture because we
work with a lot of intangible pieces of the human experience, with
mostly young adults and things like that. So I'm wondering, how did
you choose these seven dimensions? Why were they the ones that rose
to the top as the most important things to be talking about in the
framing of value and worth of student affairs?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:51]:
When we started talking about this in our, we call like we had a
retreat, an in person retreat. You know, you can't do this work.
You can't depend on just the virtual, right? We had to, to really
cast it out a few days together. Although some were virtual, it was
a hybrid, I guess. But to really sit down and really talk about
what is going on in higher education and in student affairs and
what is the why? I remember that. What is the purpose? What is the
why? And what are people doing? What are the great issues that we
were trying to address? And it was a long list. I mean, everyone
kind of came in with roi, of course, career and what do we do
dialogue. There's the issues of protests or people engaging with
one another, all of the things.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:34]:
And so we started doing that and it started categorizing it and we
kept hashing and rehashing it out. And even I think midway through
this project, I remember thinking, are we including everything in
it? And even issues like well being, you know, we're known for
that. And so we basically started with a blank slate of both what
the expectations and the work of student affairs are, what the
greater issues that we were trying to solve and address in our
work. And then I think from there started piecing together
groupings, but also hashing it out because an issue for students in
community colleges might be different or look different than
someone in an R1 and might have more weight than someone in an R1
and vice versa. So I'll start that off to say it was a bit of a,
let's put everything on this white big board or whatever we were
using. And let's start engaging and trying to figure out who are
we, what are we trying to do, what is our value and our worth? What
are the issues? I don't know if Laurie and Michelle want to jump
into like the selection process of things.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:20:41]:
Hannah, you just described the process, I think really well. And,
and I would say one of the things, you know, sometimes in student
affairs people interact with us as crisis managers, right? Or as
event planners. And all of that is true. And that's all there. And
we're also educators, all of us have gotten into this as educators.
And so we did have this conversation about what is the change that
we see in students as a result of the work that we and our
colleagues are doing with them day in, day out. And then it wasn't
that difficult actually to get to the seven. I mean, everything
grouped together pretty well.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:21:24]:
And then I think it took probably more time to make sure that we
were using the accurate language to describe each of the categories
than it did to actually create the categories themselves. So we
wanted to be really careful about it. One of the things that I'll
say that real affirmation point. Ana and our staff actually at
WashU decided just kind of out of the blue, maybe in support of
this project to gather a bunch of students and ask them on video,
what does it mean to you that you're in college? Describe your
experience, why is college worth it? And just those very open ended
questions and the things that students said to describe their own
learning and how they experienced the worth of their college
attendance matched right along the seven dimensions that we had
identified. And it was almost uncanny. You know, they weren't told
what to say, they weren't prompted in any sort of way except for an
open ended question. And what was really nice was to hear that the
students, at least on Ana's campus, and then several of us went and
did the same thing on our own to hear from our own students that
how they experience their own growth and development and what's
worthwhile to them about being in college and why this may be makes
a difference to them are the things that are happening for them
outside of the classroom and how they experience their own growth
and development. So that I think more than anything said, we are
definitely on the right track here.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]:
I think that's a great lead into my curiosity around how were the
examples investigated, what were the methodology of the task force
to decide that these are going to be what's represented to showcase
these examples of the dimensions, because the dimensions could have
gone so many different ways in terms of what data sets were being
represented or what messaging would have been important. And the
examples are amazing. So, yeah, can you talk about how those ended
up being the ones that are shining?
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:23:26]:
NASPA was a great partner, of course, and supporter in this work.
And again, a shout out to Stephanie Gordon, who was on the team and
helped lead a lot of the internal operational aspects of it. So I
would say that these sentiven impact areas were sort of this
broader philosophical skills, attributions, outcomes that we were
looking for. And then again, we wanted the programs that
exemplified that. So NASPA used some of the programs that won some
of their excellence awards, which was a national transition. Right,
to lift those up. They've already been acknowledged and rewarded
and recognized in that way. But what I love about this project is
that NASPA has created a toolkit that all of us can then plug in
our own programs to meet each of those seven things and really
encouraged to do so because it's one thing to have this kind of
national thing and it doesn't speak maybe to your local community,
your local politicians, your local boards.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:22]:
And we really wanted this to be, again, very, very practical and
useful because this is such an important topic to talk to folks
about and to educate them. And so I absolutely am so proud that we
that NASPA created this toolkit. I can and I plan to will take this
document and make it UW Madison focused. And I think Michelle's
gonna do the same thing for the College of the Holy Cross and so in
Wash U. Right. So, so then everything becomes more localized as
well as nationalized. And I think it's just really a beautiful
things. 100% want to encourage our colleagues to go online.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:55]:
There's a website, there's all the stuff that's there. I think it's
very practical, very, very useful. So the goal would be that
there'd be hundreds or thousands of these documents that would be
out there swirling amongst all of our states and local communities
to do this education and make it very real and very, very practical
for all of our colleagues across the country.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:16]:
For our NASPA members to find the toolkit that Lori is referencing,
just go onto the NASPA website and find the report that is labeled
the Human Dimension of College Worth. And on that landing page, you
can not only view the report, you can also click down to view the
toolkit, which is right at the bottom of the page. There are some
template links where you can add your own information. And it will
pop and look as polished as the report that is currently published.
And I really appreciate this activation because a lot of times we
see things come out where we're going great, I've read this. Now
what do I do with it or why does it matter to my campus or my local
community? Or how do I tell the story to the president of my
university or the other cabinet members at the university? And this
gives a real tangible way to activate this work, which I think is
just a great addition.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:26:01]:
And Jill, I want to pop in on that point and also give Lori a lot
of credit because Lori first of all asked us over and over as a
task force, how do we assess our work and where do we need to be
better? And so the toolkit also includes here are the kinds of
metrics that you might need to collect, here are the kinds of
things that you might want to talk about. Some of us are better at
assessment more systematically than others, but I think Lori's
questions helped fuel we need to provide examples for how this work
is done well and then how institutions might describe what's
happening on the ground. And to your point, Jill, about explaining
the work or the impact of the work to different audiences, we heard
that loud and clear from our NASPA constituents. You know, our
colleagues at naspa, we had a couple of sessions at annual
conference in New Orleans and we heard any number of times that
people would find this document the most useful if it didn't speak
to us as student affairs people, but really opened up the world of
what we're doing to educate students outside the classroom and
helping them grow and develop and open that world to whether it's
colleagues inside the campus, so members or people outside, whether
that's parents or lawmakers, or if we need tools to talk to our
trustees to help people really understand what's happening for
students when they are on our campuses. So I really thank Lori for
focusing us on the need to tell the assessment story, recognizing
too that a lot of times we don't see what happens in the two years
or the four years that a student is with us. The outcome is really
five or 10 years later. And so going back to talk to our alums
about the impact of their college going experience is an important
part of that storytelling as well.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:03]:
I'm going to give a shout out and reach back to Dr. Mike Sagawa who
initiated this conversation on the NASPA podcast about telling our
student affairs story better. And that episode is a couple seasons
ago, so please feel free to go back and take a listen. Dr. Sagawa
is a distinguished pillar of our profession and just an incredibly
intelligent critical thinker voice in our field. I can't say enough
positive things about Mike, so please go back and listen to that
episode. Yes, but that theme of needing to tell our story better
externally has been just absolutely prolific through this season of
our show on the value of student affairs. Every time I ask one of
our theme questions about what do we need to do to be better seen,
the response is almost always we need to tell our story better.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]:
And we have this ongoing joke internally in the profession that my
parents don't even know what I do, which is kind of funny, but kind
of not because it means that our profession isn't really understood
by even many who have gone to college. So there's such a value in
showing us how do we tell our story through this toolkit. It's just
such an incredible tool to add. And so I want to make sure that our
listeners, wherever you are in your professional journey, whether
you be in your first year, whether you're a grad student or whether
you're an ssao, have the opportunity to take this and to put it out
to your communities in this way.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:21]:
I love that. I think that when we think about telling our story and
student affairs have used different ways to tell the story, but
through another lens, right? Through academic competencies that
we've taken on, through different things that stand up the role,
which is great, our academic partners, but even they are like,
okay, what do you all really do?
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:29:41]:
Right?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:41]:
And we don't just serve. We work with our colleagues, we work with
our students. We are co curricular. And what's exciting about this
project, when my team read through it and we're working right now
to insert it and for our chancellor to say the trustees need to
read this and need to know what you. What student affairs does that
the student experience is elevated as a holistic experience. And I
think that's what one of the things that we do. We're not just the
ambulances that take them when they're in crisis, right? That's the
narrative that everyone knows. Earlier someone had said, you know,
and then the activities port is it that our students are
learning.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:30:21]:
And so this is pushing it in a way that is our student affairs
language. So I just really am excited about this project.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]:
This project closes with a call to action. And normally when we see
a call to action in a report, it's to us internally in student
affairs. But this one is different in that it makes three external
calls to action, which I think the Toolkit, again, embodies an
opportunity on how to do that effectively. So the call is for
leaders in public policy and private philanthropy, for other
institutional leaders outside of student affairs and for the
public. This is something that I again have deep appreciation for
in terms of the way that this is framed, because it starts to help
us get a framework on how to push the narrative outward as opposed
to continue to kind of internally support ourselves through these
narratives, which is often what has happened historically. Can you
talk about how you decided to frame these and why they matter for
the value and worth of our profession?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:31:16]:
I'll jump first to say that I think that the danger we've seen
different student affairs divisions get divided it up and those are
decisions made from very high up level, right in a way external to
the inside the profession in many ways. And also that the questions
about the value and worth of student affairs in particular comes a
little bit from inside, but a lot from outside that we needed to
get outside of our echo chamber to talk and tell the story and own
that story and what we really do. And I think even the audience of
this, well, of course, our entire student affairs professionals,
all different levels, should read it and understand it. And my
vision of this, and I think the group bought into it, was that our
chancellor will have it at his desk and when he will talk with a
state legislature like, this is what we do and this is these
student affairs folks and this is the student experience and why
this is worth it.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:32:14]:
I think two things I want to echo what Michelle said earlier about
what we learned from our colleagues at the NASPA conference. They
inspired us that again, they need this document for all these
purposes. And so again, I think they pushed us appropriately. So
again, it's not just something that goes on the shelf, but it needs
to be an action oriented piece. And that everybody, really
everybody is struggling in trying to manage this narrative and have
these conversations. So to have that as a tool I think is super
important. I think the other piece though also is, in addition to
to the data and the assessment and the storytelling, a good
colleague of ours, I think both Michelle and Anna and angel, you
might know too, Eric Groepich, Dr. Grosspich from Washburn
University just posted this article and it was referencing social
work.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:01]:
But he pushed me to say that this also applies to student affairs.
But the heading was success often looks like nothing happened
because a crisis was prevented. And that's kind of the nature of
our work too in that. And one of our colleagues said, yeah, you
don't really know what we do, but trust me, if we didn't do it, you
would know. And so it's an inverse now. I don't know that that's
the narrative that, you know, I think it, it makes it challenging
to present it that way. But we just had Halloween weekend, which is
a huge, sometimes chaotic, high risk management weekend. It was
crazy, but it was managed.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:35]:
That was because of all the, the intentional efforts and education
and process and support and all the things that we did. But I was
like, like, okay, another weekend, it's on Monday. And it's like,
no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We did a lot of work to
have that happen. And so that's really kind of forced me to really
rethink some of this and how do I communicate that? To say, yes,
you're welcome, that that protest went really calmly and didn't
make the national news. You're welcome, because that was us. But
this article also then talks about the individual and the impact.
And I think this also goes back to what Ana was saying is the
morale is that then you don't really get that recognition.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:34:13]:
You don't really get that apprecia. So that has to come really
intrinsically from your own self to go, I made a difference with
that student today, or I made a difference in this situation, or I
made a difference. And especially whether small or big places, it
doesn't matter. You have to continue to feed that to yourself and
have that be your own value and worth for how you're contributing
to our students and our universities as well. Again, I think
there's lots of good action steps. Maybe I went a little different
way, Jill, but I think that intentionality of these action steps
are really, really important and y external. But I think there's
opportunities for us to do more work internally as well and to tell
that story, to support our staff, to help them feel valued and
appreciated for all the important work that they do on a daily
basis.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:34:58]:
Yeah, I really appreciate that, Lori, and I think that that's
important. Not that the document is a pat on the back, but it is a
recognition of the multiple dimensions that we are at work in
students lives. And I think that that needs to be recognized. I
also actually really very much appreciate that the call to action
is outside of the profession, really, because you know, as we
started this session talking about the narrative around higher
education nationally is not at the caliber or level that I think
higher education actually deserves. And part of what is happening
with this report and the calls to action being externally focused
rather than calling to the people who are doing the hard work on
the ground is that I think this is giving different language for
all the folks who are talking about higher education and to have
more complete language around what's happening rather than the very
narrow band in which the conversation is existing. So I think that
that call to action, being externally focused, is really brilliant
because I don't know that. At least I've not heard any conversation
about. About higher education.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:36:16]:
And, you know, I hear a lot about how people think that everything
is going wrong and xyz, but I don't hear people having the language
about what's going right. And when we ask our alums, because I've
just done this to talk about what was meaningful for them when they
went to, you know, for their Holy Cross experience, they are
brilliant and telling the story of their out of classroom. And I
didn't ask them that question, but that is what they actually talk
about. And so giving lots of other people the tools to talk about
what is really worthwhile about college attendance is, I think,
smart. It's just a smart move.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:55]:
As we come to a close with our conversation on the report, is there
anything else that you would like NASPA members to know about? How
to read it, how to use it, how to activate it?
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:05]:
There's so many ways. It's ANA and I think role model this really
well. I mean, I think about using this for our student leaders. I
think about using this for our staff. And a lot of times I think,
honestly, I have struggled, especially because we're so diverse and
some of our people come from a higher ed student affairs
background. But many of my staff do not. And so. And they don't
even, like, think that they work in student affairs.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:25]:
I'm like, no, you do. And this is what that means. And so to have
that kind of educational tool of this is what I do or this is what
we do holistically is just a fabulous thing. So again, internally,
there's so many opportunities and uses, but then also, as we've
indicated, that this is really our chance to shine and to tell this
story. And I really implore that all of our colleagues across the
country at all of your institutions use this to do that, because
that will make us better, that will make us stronger, which then
obviously impacts our students. And that's the bottom line is
everything that we do impacts our students. So the more belief and
support that there is for the work that we do, the better our
students will be. And that's what it's all about.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:38:07]:
Can't think of a better place to end than that. It's about our
students.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:11]:
Thanks, Laurie. That was great.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:38:13]:
Thank you. You're sweet.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]:
For all of our other guests this season, we've been asking three
questions on our theme of the value of student affairs. But because
we've spent our entire dialogue today focused on this, I'm only
going to ask you each one question, which is our normally second
question, and that is, can you share a specific story or moment
when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:34]:
It was actually during a contentious time in higher education. It
was protest, and a student was really upset with another student.
And I had brought them together at a meal at my house, and they
came together as part of different groups, and I saw them, and I
talked about the importance of dialogue and having a meal and
engaging. And at that moment, the student who was so upset was so
upset that the student was going to be in the same space as them,
went up and said, I don't like what happened, but I would like to
talk with you, and I want to just listen. And I'm going to ask that
we listen to each other. And they didn't end up being best friends,
but it was the first time they sat down and listened and engaged,
and it didn't end up in the shouting match. And they continue to
listen and engage over the years, and they keep in touch with me.
And I thought that was just the beauty of our work.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:39:32]:
There's no theory. There's no grades involved. It was just bringing
them together and engaging and listening.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:39:39]:
I had a challenging conversation with some of our student leaders a
couple weeks ago about a situation that happened and the lessons
that could be learned from that. Multiple sides, of course, to
every story. But the gist of it, from my perspective, was that we
weren't all on the same page of how a situation was gonna be
handled. And so there was a surprise element of it. And I just
remember talking with these four student leaders of here's the life
lesson. No surprises. People don't like surprises. Your bosses
don't like surprises.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:09]:
Your partners don't like surprises. Communication is a tactic. But
if you want to build trust and if you want to build community and
if you want to build collaboration, surprises is not the way to do
that. And so it was really one of those just really important
lessons of what they were doing, but then how it translates to
their broader perspective. There wasn't not a big, like, Ana. It
wasn't like a big, you know, Kumbaya. And everybody's like, oh,
there's, you know, but But I think there was learning, and I think
that there was reflection. And so I think it's just taking those
time, those moments, to really help people understand their
behaviors and their both intentions and impact.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:50]:
And what are the life lessons, both professionally and personally,
that you can take away from those situations? So those are that I
love those kinds of situations, and we have them all, and our staff
have them all the time. But that was probably a most. A more recent
one that was significant for me.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:41:06]:
Like my colleagues, I have lots of stories, especially whenever I
have the privilege to speak to an alum who can reflect back and
talk about how their experience at the institution really shaped
the adult they became, or how they do their work or the work they
do or what they do, whatever the family they raised, all of that is
really important. But I think the piece that I want to call out,
it's the work of some of my colleagues who do work on constructive
dialogue here on this campus. And we just honored that at our
football game over the weekend. And we have a group called the
Speech Peer Educators, and they are specifically trained to help
people dialogue across difference. But we also have a program with
it called Dialogue Dinners, and this past month, we did two. One
was focused on the history of slavery in this country and the
intersection of slavery and the history of this institution. So
that was the subject of a Dialogue Dinner. And the other one that
we had that was also, I think, pretty hard hitting was AI and its
impact on society and on individuals.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:42:15]:
And what that means means, you know, for students who are in
college and to see these student leaders facilitate and navigate
dicey conversations and to have their peers stay in it and be in
dialogue with one another, I thought, yep, this is what we do, and
this is why we do it. And to have people walk away, I learned
something here. My thoughts are more complicated than they were
when I arrived. That was a win on both occasions. So to have both
of those happen in the last month, I felt really proud of my staff
and of the student leaders they work with.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:53]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris
to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. It's time to take a
quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's
going on in the NASPA world.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:05]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's
a ton of things happening, happening in NASPA. Did you know that
NASPA offers on demand recordings for all the webinars offered
throughout the year? These recordings are available for purchase
and can be viewed at your leisure. Topics for the webinar range
across the NASPA competencies and provide professional development
from student affairs professionals. On Demand recordings can be
viewed by yourself or with a large group during a lunch and Learn
or another professional development opportunity within your
department or your division. The presentations are about 60 minutes
long, including question and answer, closed caption and transcript
viewing are available for all webinars. The cost of A webinar is
$79 for members and 179 for non members, and institutions that want
to register 25 individuals or more will also receive a 15% off
coupon.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:57]:
On Demand recordings are then available for 365 days after your
program purchase. If you want to find out more, go to the NASPA
website and on the NASPA website you can go under Events and Online
Learning and click on the On Demand Catalog to see the whole list
of On Demand webinars that are available and I think you'll be
surprised at the breadth and depth of webinars that are available
as a part of the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up in March
2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. There's a number of other webinars,
affiliated conferences or institutes that are going to be a part of
that same conference. The Undergraduate Student Conference is
happening on March 8, 2026 and currently you can still submit
proposals that showcase diverse experiences in student affairs
across different contexts and engage students through creative
formats. The program proposals are due on January 5, 2026 and if
you're planning to attend the NASPA Annual Conference, this might
be a great opportunity opportunity for you to be able to speak to
undergraduate students that are considering student affairs. Go to
the NASPA Annual Conference website to be able to submit your
program proposal today. Also on March 7th and 8th there will also
be the Community College Institute, which is a great opportunity
for individuals from community colleges to come together and
explore innovative teaching technology and collaborate with
colleagues to enhance the student experience and shape the future
of our associations. On top of that, also on the same days March
7th and 8th will be the International Symposium where you can
connect with global leaders and experts in student affairs.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:39]:
This year's theme is Promising Practices Without Borders. The
symposium will explore innovative partnerships and practices
shaping the future of international student services. If you have
an interest in adding on any of these affiliated conferences or
institutes, as well as the wide array of pre conference programming
that is happening on March 7th and 8th as well, go to the NASPA
website, open up your conference registration information and you
can add on an additional pre conference or affiliated conference
right there if you missed it. There is a new Journal of College and
Character that has recently been released that is accessible for
you as a member of naspa. The Journal of College and Character is
is a professional peer reviewed publication that focuses on
character development in college and how colleges and universities
influence, both intentionally and unintentionally, the moral and
civic learning and behavior of their students. The journal includes
resources and information designed to encourage discussion,
research and innovative educational practices, publishing scholarly
articles and applied research on issues related to academic ethics,
values and character development in higher education. The new issue
that is available is available on the NASPA website and you can
access it by going onto the NASPA website and go under Research and
Publications. Scroll down to Scholarly Journals and you can find
that in the other scholarly journals there.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:08]:
This recent journal has a number of different powerful articles
that are both peer reviewed articles as well as invited articles
Articles including one entitled Student Suicide and Spirituality by
Serena Margaret Saliba and also another one called Greek Life,
Character and Religiosity, A Study of Fraternity and Sorority
Members at a Christian University by Aaron Ellis, Isaiah King, Will
Baxter, Kevin Dougherty and Perry Glanzer. There's a number of
other pieces that are in this journal that I would highly encourage
you to review for yourself. And as mentioned before, this is only
one of the journals that are a part of your membership in naspa,
and I highly encourage you to check out all of the journals to
extend your own learning and offer you opportunities to be able to
bring some of that learning back to your own campus. Every week
we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening
within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep
you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to
be able to get get involved in different ways. Because the
association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have
to find our place within the association, whether it be getting
involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the
centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing
that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do
you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping
that you that we will share some things that might encourage you,
might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide
you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in
that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that,
or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to
think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to
the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the
association and to all of the members within the association.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:09]:
Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the
association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more
about what is happening in naspa.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:20]:
Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on
what's going on in and around naspa. And we have reached our
lightning round, which means we're almost at the end of our show.
Since you have been here before, we have a different lightning
round set for you than we do for Lori and Michelle. So we're gonna
go for Ana's lightning round first. Ana, are you ready?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:38]:
Ooh.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:38]:
All right, question one. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to
change your answer from the first go around. If you were a
conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:47]:
It would be Apatapeta.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]:
Number two, what was your undergraduate degree and do you use it
now?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:53]:
Bachelor's in business. And yes, I do use it now.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:56]:
Question three, your guilty pleasure TV show. Bing.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:00]:
It's Black Doves. It's my new one.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:02]:
Question number four, if someone ever visits your city, which is
St. Louis, what's the one place they must eat?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:08]:
The one thing that they must eat is St. Louis barbecue.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:11]:
Number five, what's your favorite work related podcast?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:14]:
NASPA. This one. It's the only one I do.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:17]:
Number six, your favorite, not work related podcast.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:20]:
I don't do other podcasts. I'm boring.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:22]:
Fair enough.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:23]:
And number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or
professional?
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:26]:
Yeah, just. Hello, NASPA colleagues. Thank you so much, Jill, for
doing this and interviewing. Interviewing us. And this is
fantastic.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:33]:
All right, Michelle and Laurie, we are on to you. We're gonna have
Michelle going first, Laurie going second on all of our questions.
Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what
would your entrance music be?
Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:44]:
Earth, Wind and Fire, Shining Star.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:46]:
I would say ditto, but the other song I just heard is Thunder, but
I don't know if that's the name of it, but that's kind of my, like,
get Psych song. Yeah.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:53]:
Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be
when you grew up?
Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:57]:
I'm so old that when I was five, the choices for girls were nurse
and teacher. So one of those hairstylist.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:06]:
Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:09]:
There's so many. I can't answer that because if I say one person,
I'll feel bad about all the others that I didn't say, but I am
really grateful to you know what I'm going to say. Susan Donovan I
agree too.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:21]:
Many, many, many, many and so blessed for that. But David Ambler
from the University of.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:25]:
Kansas, Number four, your essential student affairs read.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:28]:
Well, obviously the Chronicle Daily, but I think it's important to
read other things and so the Atlantic is my favorite.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:35]:
Harvard Business Review would be my favorite.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:38]:
Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:40]:
The Gilded Age.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]:
Love is Blind Denver season just finished. I watched that too.
Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in
the last year.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:48]:
I don't listen to podcasts. So boring.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:50]:
Mel Robbins and finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to
give, personal or professional?
Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:54]:
Yeah, I want to shout out Lori for co this thing with me and for
what with our task force we produced. But also to Ana, who had the
vision and brought us all together and shined. The guiding
star.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:09]:
Well, of course, ditto. See, this is why I love Michelle. I'm just
gonna say ditto to everything she says, but my shout out would
always be to my daughter Sarah. So she gives me hope and purpose
and love and humility and perspective. So love you, Sarah.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:23]:
All right everyone, you've made it to the end of our lightning
round. The very last thing I will ask you is how can anyone, anyone
reach you? If they'd like to reach out, they.
Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:52:31]:
Can email me at Ana A N N A dot Gonzalez with a Z at the end at
uustl and folks.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:52:38]:
Can reach me at Mmurray M M U R R a yolycross Edu and.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:46]:
Ulreser R E E S O R at wisc U I S C edu.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:52]:
On behalf of the NASPA community, thank you so much for creating
this document and this toolkit for us to use at our institutions. I
know so many people being able to put forward our student affairs
stories through this document. On behalf of everyone and of course
myself as the host of the pod, thank you so much for sharing your
voice with us today.
Dr. Lori Reesor [00:53:10]:
Thank you.
Dr. Michele Murray [00:53:11]:
Thank you Jill.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]:
Thanks. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field
brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you,
the listeners. We continue to be so great grateful that you choose
to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you
can email us at savoices@naspa.org
or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We
welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions
always.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]:
We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the
show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or
wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student
affairs professionals find the show and helps us us to become more
visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was
produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me. Produced and
audio engineered by Dr. Chris
Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan,
Flint for your support as we create this
project. Catch you next time.